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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Your take on Mirror Image, 3.0 or 3.5
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6259171" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>Well and good, and my comments do note this is a recommended assumption, not a rule as written. The absence of rulings for many issues which do not arise when we assume the images cluster in the 25 or so square feet surrounding the caster implies to me that this is the intention of the RAW, however. </p><p></p><p>The figments “stay near you”, which is undefined but doesn’t strike me as 15’ or 20’ away. There is no indication of how to determine where, exactly, they appear or shuffle to, how and where they move, or how rapidly they can move. A random roll makes no sense if I am only in striking distance of three out of nine images (including the real wizard). All of these gaps make it difficult for me to conclude the intent of the spell’s designer was that the images spread out, each in its own square, and rush back and forth whenever the Wizard takes a move action of a 5’ step.</p><p></p><p>Also, not directed at the images’ location, if “observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you”, searching one or more squares to differentiate images from caster seems to violate that specific RAW as most PC’s rely on vision and hearing to search.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can treat anything you want as the rules and run the game in accordance with that. However, I do not read the spell description as you do, so I do not consider your interpretation to be RAW. It is simply your interpretation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It does not say “when he takes a move action or a 5’ step”, nor does it state that an attacker can know the location of the actual target until the caster’s next turn. I can see that interpretation being made. I can also see the term “moving” being its actual meaning, and my view is that characters are always moving about in combat, and do not freeze in place between actions. Creatures with STR 0 or DEX 0 “cannot move at all”. Moving is not a defined term – “move action” is, as is 5’ step. That, to me, is more consistent with the inability to determine the caster from the image. A somatic component is a movement of the hand, so a character casting such a spell must be “moving” despite not travelling any distance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Emphasis added. How do we determine the caster chooses, and what are the parameters for that choice? I’m inclined to agree with your approach, if we accept the images spread out to different squares at all. The spell is silent on who controls the movement of the images, or how their movement is determined, so caster control makes the most sense. But it seems odd he can control the movements of up to 8 images with no actions when figments like Silent Image require ongoing concentration.</p><p></p><p>If we accept the images may fly, be embedded in objects, etc. then I think the attacker needs to get to choose which to attack (whether the flying ones as he thinks that’s where the Wizard would be, or the ones not embedded in the ground since the wizard has only cast one spell since we attacked), rather than being guided by random roll.</p><p></p><p>That random roll still seems wrong to me if the wizard calls up the images – don’t I know where he was when he called them up? If one or more of the images end up further away than I think he could have moved after casting the spell (or if he had to back off to avoid an AoO for casting it), can’t I reasonably choose to ignore those images? </p><p></p><p>Fanning them out also means they should disappear pretty quick if the wizard starts casting – each of them mimics his movements, so doesn’t each one attract an AoO from anyone in proximity to that image?</p><p></p><p>Overall, it seems unlikely, at least to me , that the many obvious questions which arise if each image occupies its own square would not be addressed by the spell description. It seems far more likely, and consistent with the FAQ, that they were never intended to spread out so broadly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6259171, member: 6681948"] Well and good, and my comments do note this is a recommended assumption, not a rule as written. The absence of rulings for many issues which do not arise when we assume the images cluster in the 25 or so square feet surrounding the caster implies to me that this is the intention of the RAW, however. The figments “stay near you”, which is undefined but doesn’t strike me as 15’ or 20’ away. There is no indication of how to determine where, exactly, they appear or shuffle to, how and where they move, or how rapidly they can move. A random roll makes no sense if I am only in striking distance of three out of nine images (including the real wizard). All of these gaps make it difficult for me to conclude the intent of the spell’s designer was that the images spread out, each in its own square, and rush back and forth whenever the Wizard takes a move action of a 5’ step. Also, not directed at the images’ location, if “observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you”, searching one or more squares to differentiate images from caster seems to violate that specific RAW as most PC’s rely on vision and hearing to search. You can treat anything you want as the rules and run the game in accordance with that. However, I do not read the spell description as you do, so I do not consider your interpretation to be RAW. It is simply your interpretation. It does not say “when he takes a move action or a 5’ step”, nor does it state that an attacker can know the location of the actual target until the caster’s next turn. I can see that interpretation being made. I can also see the term “moving” being its actual meaning, and my view is that characters are always moving about in combat, and do not freeze in place between actions. Creatures with STR 0 or DEX 0 “cannot move at all”. Moving is not a defined term – “move action” is, as is 5’ step. That, to me, is more consistent with the inability to determine the caster from the image. A somatic component is a movement of the hand, so a character casting such a spell must be “moving” despite not travelling any distance. Emphasis added. How do we determine the caster chooses, and what are the parameters for that choice? I’m inclined to agree with your approach, if we accept the images spread out to different squares at all. The spell is silent on who controls the movement of the images, or how their movement is determined, so caster control makes the most sense. But it seems odd he can control the movements of up to 8 images with no actions when figments like Silent Image require ongoing concentration. If we accept the images may fly, be embedded in objects, etc. then I think the attacker needs to get to choose which to attack (whether the flying ones as he thinks that’s where the Wizard would be, or the ones not embedded in the ground since the wizard has only cast one spell since we attacked), rather than being guided by random roll. That random roll still seems wrong to me if the wizard calls up the images – don’t I know where he was when he called them up? If one or more of the images end up further away than I think he could have moved after casting the spell (or if he had to back off to avoid an AoO for casting it), can’t I reasonably choose to ignore those images? Fanning them out also means they should disappear pretty quick if the wizard starts casting – each of them mimics his movements, so doesn’t each one attract an AoO from anyone in proximity to that image? Overall, it seems unlikely, at least to me , that the many obvious questions which arise if each image occupies its own square would not be addressed by the spell description. It seems far more likely, and consistent with the FAQ, that they were never intended to spread out so broadly. [/QUOTE]
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