Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Your Thoughts on the Matrix Revolutions?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chain Lightning" data-source="post: 1213677" data-attributes="member: 6791"><p>WARNING - - - SOME MINOR SPOILERS MAY BE CONCLUDED FROM READING MY THOUGHTS ON CERTAIN SCENES.</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p>-</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Originally Posted by ASH</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree. I don't think art should be so simple. I don't think many things should be so simple. I don't think it should be "Yes" or "No". Its like having a scientist rate the temperatures with just "Hot" or "Cold". There's a reason for degrees. Because its more accurate and close to measuring things.</p><p></p><p>I can't say , "Yes" and be 100% truthfully communicating what I feel. Its more like "Yes....but barely." That's totally different from "Yes! Absolutely awesome!"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't expect that ever of any movie. I know you're exaggerating...but really. At its core, I want to be entertained...that's true. But we discuss here, the different levels of achievement in these goals.</p><p></p><p>And I in particular never said I didn't like the movie because there were certain things unexplained. I scored it low because of a many variety of reasons. Bad dialogue, bad editing/or storyboarding, script's inability to provoke appropriate emotional response that a trilogy's ending should have.....etc, etc.</p><p></p><p>There are parts of a story that you allow to remian mysterious because its the charm of the story. A writer knows when and what to leave mysterious. Let's take the original Star Wars trilogy for example. They introduce bits that they never explain or show. Like 'the Clone Wars'. They never show it in episodes 4-6. They never explain Boba Fett's past. And if episodes 1-3 never ever came out, we'd still be fine with it.</p><p></p><p>But imagine certain things that ought to have a resolution of some sort....being totally not addressed. I rather have some very important things resolved, even in a way I DON'T understand , rather than not get resolved at all. David Lynch films are good examples of this. Even his weird films, that twist and make your brain quiver in confusion....there's a still a resolution. It may take you years of discussing it late night in coffee houses to disect it...but its there. You saw and recognized it the first time you saw the movie, even if you didn't understand it till years later. Or not at all...just the hint of meaning being slightly out of your grasp. Like maybe some part of Pink Floyd the Wall. Or the ending to Casablanca. Now THAT'S the type of <em> 'leaving it a mystery' </em></p><p>I enjoy. Not, the <em>'I'm a bad writer and I totally forgot to address this, but it doesn't matter because fanboys are now thinking I did it on purpose and that I'm a genius' </em>type of <em> 'leaving it a mystery'</em>. </p><p></p><p>Now here's the trick. Being able to see which one is which.</p><p></p><p>In Matrix:Reloaded, Neo starts to develop a little of 'the vision'......which we assume is much in the same vision/ability the Oracle has. He dreams of Trinity's impending doom. He doesn't know why he's having these dreams until he meets the Oracle and she explains to him (and the audience), that "he now has the vision". Where does this go?</p><p></p><p>In Matrix:Revolutions, this vision is never brought up, used, expanded on, or anything. Oh...and please don't disgust me by retorting with "the vision is a part of his vision to see the machine world that he develops and also the ability to enter without being jacked in....." </p><p></p><p>The vision mentioned in Matrix:Reloaded is plainly the ability to see into the future. Which is never explained how a computer can have clairvoyance. But THAT PART , I don't mind. We are left to assume they use a complex mathematical probability process that is so complex and layered...its much like fortune telling. Us filling in THAT blank is cool. What's not cool, is the introduction of this ability only to facilitate a plot device the brothers thought would be cool. That being...bookending Reloaded with the doom of Trinity and how it is a major cloud over Neo's journey through that middle story. And they are right, that IS a cool plot device. However, to make it work, they came up with an explanation which tags Neo with this ability, but since it was only brought up to facilitate the plot device in the second movie....it doesn't appear at all in the third. In doing that....you've created a 'hole'. A mistake, a flaw in the story. </p><p></p><p>Imagine watching Empires Strikes Back and listening to the line, "no...there is another....." </p><p></p><p>Then in Jedi....they never reveal who the other is. Leia isn't revealed as his sister or anything. Darth doesn't find out either. She just romantically ends up with Solo at the end. And nothing is ever done to resolve this 'bomb' Yoda threw out in Empire.</p><p></p><p>Another thing. It's just not holes like Neo's growing Oracle like vision/ability. Its how things were shot too. </p><p></p><p>I don't mind not knowing FOR SURE what exactly becomes of the human and machine race at the end. I don't need the Matrix equivelant of the Ewok Celebration to be satisfied. You are wrong in assuming that is what we (who were let down a bit) were after. I was fine with the resolution, I just wasn't fine with how it was shot. No emotional impact for me whatsoever. How odd considering how easy I go on movies. I'm usually the one that comes to friends and say "come on guys, lighten up....you're being too nit picky". But those last few shots were bad. That still shot of the city with sherbert icecream colored sunrise coming up over city....ugh. Where's the majesty? Where's the famed impressive visuals that the Matrix makers boast? What? No vitual crane shot slowly rising above the city and seeing the city stretch on the the horizon? Just that static shot? C'mon guys.......do something awe and breathtaking with this last shot......something....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chain Lightning, post: 1213677, member: 6791"] WARNING - - - SOME MINOR SPOILERS MAY BE CONCLUDED FROM READING MY THOUGHTS ON CERTAIN SCENES. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally Posted by ASH I disagree. I don't think art should be so simple. I don't think many things should be so simple. I don't think it should be "Yes" or "No". Its like having a scientist rate the temperatures with just "Hot" or "Cold". There's a reason for degrees. Because its more accurate and close to measuring things. I can't say , "Yes" and be 100% truthfully communicating what I feel. Its more like "Yes....but barely." That's totally different from "Yes! Absolutely awesome!" I didn't expect that ever of any movie. I know you're exaggerating...but really. At its core, I want to be entertained...that's true. But we discuss here, the different levels of achievement in these goals. And I in particular never said I didn't like the movie because there were certain things unexplained. I scored it low because of a many variety of reasons. Bad dialogue, bad editing/or storyboarding, script's inability to provoke appropriate emotional response that a trilogy's ending should have.....etc, etc. There are parts of a story that you allow to remian mysterious because its the charm of the story. A writer knows when and what to leave mysterious. Let's take the original Star Wars trilogy for example. They introduce bits that they never explain or show. Like 'the Clone Wars'. They never show it in episodes 4-6. They never explain Boba Fett's past. And if episodes 1-3 never ever came out, we'd still be fine with it. But imagine certain things that ought to have a resolution of some sort....being totally not addressed. I rather have some very important things resolved, even in a way I DON'T understand , rather than not get resolved at all. David Lynch films are good examples of this. Even his weird films, that twist and make your brain quiver in confusion....there's a still a resolution. It may take you years of discussing it late night in coffee houses to disect it...but its there. You saw and recognized it the first time you saw the movie, even if you didn't understand it till years later. Or not at all...just the hint of meaning being slightly out of your grasp. Like maybe some part of Pink Floyd the Wall. Or the ending to Casablanca. Now THAT'S the type of [I] 'leaving it a mystery' [/I] I enjoy. Not, the [I]'I'm a bad writer and I totally forgot to address this, but it doesn't matter because fanboys are now thinking I did it on purpose and that I'm a genius' [/I]type of [I] 'leaving it a mystery'[/I]. Now here's the trick. Being able to see which one is which. In Matrix:Reloaded, Neo starts to develop a little of 'the vision'......which we assume is much in the same vision/ability the Oracle has. He dreams of Trinity's impending doom. He doesn't know why he's having these dreams until he meets the Oracle and she explains to him (and the audience), that "he now has the vision". Where does this go? In Matrix:Revolutions, this vision is never brought up, used, expanded on, or anything. Oh...and please don't disgust me by retorting with "the vision is a part of his vision to see the machine world that he develops and also the ability to enter without being jacked in....." The vision mentioned in Matrix:Reloaded is plainly the ability to see into the future. Which is never explained how a computer can have clairvoyance. But THAT PART , I don't mind. We are left to assume they use a complex mathematical probability process that is so complex and layered...its much like fortune telling. Us filling in THAT blank is cool. What's not cool, is the introduction of this ability only to facilitate a plot device the brothers thought would be cool. That being...bookending Reloaded with the doom of Trinity and how it is a major cloud over Neo's journey through that middle story. And they are right, that IS a cool plot device. However, to make it work, they came up with an explanation which tags Neo with this ability, but since it was only brought up to facilitate the plot device in the second movie....it doesn't appear at all in the third. In doing that....you've created a 'hole'. A mistake, a flaw in the story. Imagine watching Empires Strikes Back and listening to the line, "no...there is another....." Then in Jedi....they never reveal who the other is. Leia isn't revealed as his sister or anything. Darth doesn't find out either. She just romantically ends up with Solo at the end. And nothing is ever done to resolve this 'bomb' Yoda threw out in Empire. Another thing. It's just not holes like Neo's growing Oracle like vision/ability. Its how things were shot too. I don't mind not knowing FOR SURE what exactly becomes of the human and machine race at the end. I don't need the Matrix equivelant of the Ewok Celebration to be satisfied. You are wrong in assuming that is what we (who were let down a bit) were after. I was fine with the resolution, I just wasn't fine with how it was shot. No emotional impact for me whatsoever. How odd considering how easy I go on movies. I'm usually the one that comes to friends and say "come on guys, lighten up....you're being too nit picky". But those last few shots were bad. That still shot of the city with sherbert icecream colored sunrise coming up over city....ugh. Where's the majesty? Where's the famed impressive visuals that the Matrix makers boast? What? No vitual crane shot slowly rising above the city and seeing the city stretch on the the horizon? Just that static shot? C'mon guys.......do something awe and breathtaking with this last shot......something.... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Your Thoughts on the Matrix Revolutions?
Top