Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Your thoughts on the power of prestige classes
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 482833" data-attributes="member: 151"><p></p><p></p><p>No, I didn't. One of the classes I quoted was underpowered, the bondblade. Mind you, since there were only three classes reviewed, I only missed one.</p><p></p><p>You're drawing conclusions from the article that simply aren't there. When Monte critiques the Disciple of the Four Winds, he says: <em>"Unfortunately, the class' abilities don't measure up to its harsh requirements."</em> And he's right. That class makes you give up all of a monk's best abilities for the power to jump all over the battlefield. It's not a fair swap for a PrC that you can't even qualify for until 8th level, or 15th level for small characters.</p><p></p><p>That does not equal the same thing as saying PrCs should be more powerful than core classes. He's saying that if a character makes a sacrifice to take a prestige class, he should be compensated with abilities that make the sacrifice worthwhile.</p><p></p><p>How about the Internal Alchemist, the next Prc? <em>"When balancing prestige class abilities, the number one way to look at it is to ask yourself: If a character didn't take this class, where would he be and what could he do? Then compare your answer to the things your prestige class can do. I like the internal alchemist a lot, but coupled with his normal spell progression, a couple of his abilities make him so much better than a normal wizard or sorcerer, the class is probably not properly balanced. </em> Looks like a "too powerful" recommendation to me.</p><p></p><p>In my previous post, I quoted him about the bondblade. Let's quote him again: <em>"For non-spellcasting classes, match up the abilities gained with the abilities lost. Does a fighter-style prestige class give abilities at least as good as a fighter would get (but not way better) if he or she just stayed with the basic class and got normal bonus feats? What about a paladin's special abilities -- do the prestige class abilities stack up against the additional laying on hands, smiting evil, and other benefits the paladin gives up?"</em> There it is again: as good as, not better than. He's not trying to invalidate the core classes as a choice, but give players alternate, campaign-specific choices.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For those who'd like to draw their own conclusions, I encourage you to read Monte's original articles. The original first article is <a href="http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly9.html" target="_blank">HERE</a> and the second article can be found <a href="http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly10.html" target="_blank">HERE</a>. Given that the PrCs from Monte's own supplements, BoEM I and II, are both fairly low in power, I don't see much support for your argument, here. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The poll is not terribly well worded, IMHO. How about a specific quote or page reference from the DMG that makes this plain? It seems to me that Monte was saying, several times, that Prestige Classes should be rewarding to take, but roughly equal in power to a core class combination.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 482833, member: 151"] [B][/b] No, I didn't. One of the classes I quoted was underpowered, the bondblade. Mind you, since there were only three classes reviewed, I only missed one. You're drawing conclusions from the article that simply aren't there. When Monte critiques the Disciple of the Four Winds, he says: [i]"Unfortunately, the class' abilities don't measure up to its harsh requirements."[/i] And he's right. That class makes you give up all of a monk's best abilities for the power to jump all over the battlefield. It's not a fair swap for a PrC that you can't even qualify for until 8th level, or 15th level for small characters. That does not equal the same thing as saying PrCs should be more powerful than core classes. He's saying that if a character makes a sacrifice to take a prestige class, he should be compensated with abilities that make the sacrifice worthwhile. How about the Internal Alchemist, the next Prc? [i]"When balancing prestige class abilities, the number one way to look at it is to ask yourself: If a character didn't take this class, where would he be and what could he do? Then compare your answer to the things your prestige class can do. I like the internal alchemist a lot, but coupled with his normal spell progression, a couple of his abilities make him so much better than a normal wizard or sorcerer, the class is probably not properly balanced. [/i] Looks like a "too powerful" recommendation to me. In my previous post, I quoted him about the bondblade. Let's quote him again: [i]"For non-spellcasting classes, match up the abilities gained with the abilities lost. Does a fighter-style prestige class give abilities at least as good as a fighter would get (but not way better) if he or she just stayed with the basic class and got normal bonus feats? What about a paladin's special abilities -- do the prestige class abilities stack up against the additional laying on hands, smiting evil, and other benefits the paladin gives up?"[/i] There it is again: as good as, not better than. He's not trying to invalidate the core classes as a choice, but give players alternate, campaign-specific choices. For those who'd like to draw their own conclusions, I encourage you to read Monte's original articles. The original first article is [URL=http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly9.html]HERE[/url] and the second article can be found [URL=http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly10.html]HERE[/URL]. Given that the PrCs from Monte's own supplements, BoEM I and II, are both fairly low in power, I don't see much support for your argument, here. The poll is not terribly well worded, IMHO. How about a specific quote or page reference from the DMG that makes this plain? It seems to me that Monte was saying, several times, that Prestige Classes should be rewarding to take, but roughly equal in power to a core class combination. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Your thoughts on the power of prestige classes
Top