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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2366791" data-attributes="member: 5777">Pretty much anything can change any dynamics, every extra thing you toss in shifts the paradigm. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Still though, it is a nice little dip, but is it overly nicer than the others I listed? Is it always worthwhile to delay your primary class abilities?Primary casters tend to not want to lose the level of casting, primary fighters tend not to lik the small hd and the missing point of BAB.I dont think that darkvision nor see invisibilty are directly comparable to +4 to even one stat (of course, it would be a named bonus to that stat, which really cuts into its usefulness, and easily dispelable). See invisibility just doesnt come up very often in my experience and lots of first level characters already have darkvision anyway. All it does in my mind is set them up to actually make the party able to use darkvision. After all, all it takes is one person without darkvision to make it so that the whole party is in or near the torchfire <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Overall, it is definately an interesting and tough choice, but can provide for some good options. As can taking a dip into a large number of classes, each has their own strengths.I like having the option there, it teases those guys who really want to go for a certain maximised goal but also really want to cover their butts.. lol</blockquote>

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