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<blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2368023" data-attributes="member: 5777"><p>For a fighter it delays iterative attack progression and it delays gaining fighter only feats, but then multiclassing with a fighter is a given. He'll likely want to pick up a couple levels of ranger and a couple levels of rogue and a couple levels of barb and a couple levels of warlock. All to enhance and round out the character. I dont see warlock being a big bad edition to that pile of multiclassing <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Also, the rogue gives up sneak attack progression and a pile of skill points. It is still a viable option, but it isnt like they arent giving up anything. All it gives them is an effective ray of frost at will (double damage but not cold type) when they could have something similar by just grabbing a wand and 1 ability that could last for 24 hours (or modify their blast). I dont think see invis or darkvision are exactly obscene, the first is limited and the second many characters have, also refer to my other post about darkvision..lol.. Personally, if I was going to dip as a rogue, I would go for beguiling influence or entropic warding. Of course, I'd probably be better off picking up a level of Marshal instead.</p><p></p><p>Still though, missing out on 6 skill points, half of a sneak attack die, and about a BAB point, along with delaying the higher level cool special abilities.. Definately not getting this stuff for free!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>More focused than a guy who gets 12 invocations over his 20 levels? the wizard has more spell choices than that at <em>level 1</em>. Now who is more focused?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I havent had any issues with the class yet except that it seems a little weak in some ways and always very narrow. I had players pick up see the unseen at level 1 and they definately felt like they should have picked something else. One player didnt have darkvision while the rest of the party did = either leaving that guy behind or carrying torches. Their see invis hasnt come in handy more than once yet at level 6, although it could have by now depending on the game. But, at level 1 if you are walking around with no BAB, one good save, 2 skill points, a d6 blast, d6 hd, and you spent your class ability to see in the dark you start feeling pretty weak next to the guy with 1 BAB, 6 skill points, d8 hd, two good saves, bonus feats, and more random combat ability. Such is the life of a caster though I guess <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scion, post: 2368023, member: 5777"] For a fighter it delays iterative attack progression and it delays gaining fighter only feats, but then multiclassing with a fighter is a given. He'll likely want to pick up a couple levels of ranger and a couple levels of rogue and a couple levels of barb and a couple levels of warlock. All to enhance and round out the character. I dont see warlock being a big bad edition to that pile of multiclassing ;) Also, the rogue gives up sneak attack progression and a pile of skill points. It is still a viable option, but it isnt like they arent giving up anything. All it gives them is an effective ray of frost at will (double damage but not cold type) when they could have something similar by just grabbing a wand and 1 ability that could last for 24 hours (or modify their blast). I dont think see invis or darkvision are exactly obscene, the first is limited and the second many characters have, also refer to my other post about darkvision..lol.. Personally, if I was going to dip as a rogue, I would go for beguiling influence or entropic warding. Of course, I'd probably be better off picking up a level of Marshal instead. Still though, missing out on 6 skill points, half of a sneak attack die, and about a BAB point, along with delaying the higher level cool special abilities.. Definately not getting this stuff for free! More focused than a guy who gets 12 invocations over his 20 levels? the wizard has more spell choices than that at [I]level 1[/I]. Now who is more focused? I havent had any issues with the class yet except that it seems a little weak in some ways and always very narrow. I had players pick up see the unseen at level 1 and they definately felt like they should have picked something else. One player didnt have darkvision while the rest of the party did = either leaving that guy behind or carrying torches. Their see invis hasnt come in handy more than once yet at level 6, although it could have by now depending on the game. But, at level 1 if you are walking around with no BAB, one good save, 2 skill points, a d6 blast, d6 hd, and you spent your class ability to see in the dark you start feeling pretty weak next to the guy with 1 BAB, 6 skill points, d8 hd, two good saves, bonus feats, and more random combat ability. Such is the life of a caster though I guess ;) [/QUOTE]
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