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<blockquote data-quote="satori01" data-source="post: 2373592" data-attributes="member: 7859"><p>Ok a couple of points: </p><p></p><p>The power ARandomGod is refering to is the Utterblast power which is one of the top tiers powers of the Warlock class. The subject needs to make a fort save or gain two negative levels that disapear in one hour, this invocation is supposed to be equavilent to an eighth level spell. The earliest a Warlock could chose this power is 16th level.</p><p></p><p>Now Everyone go check the fourth level Enevation spell. Please note that this fourth level spell can have double the effect and double the duration at a much lower character level. Sure a Warlock can throw Utterblast around ad infinitum, but in game terms a 16th level Sorcerer with this or a Necromancer with a wand can essentially do it as much as a Warlock. </p><p></p><p>Keep in mind Deathward will negate both the Enevation spell and the Utterblast invocation, but while the 16th level sorcerer has only wasted a fourth level spell, the Warlock's highest level power is now non effective. All thanks to a fourth level spell.</p><p></p><p>Most Warlock powers are like that. Now regarding the Evard's Black Tentacle Invocation, like the spell anyone entering the area of effect is subject to it. If the Warlock is in a group of Archers then yeah it could be bad, but then again a group of Archers with a Druid and not a Warlock can be just as bad, given the right circumstance and an entange spell, or a web spell or any battlefield controlling spell. A Warlock in a group of tanks in probably not going to chose this invocation due to the risk of grappling his own party mates at worst, or slowing their movement to half at best. Paper tiger argument.</p><p></p><p>One of the biggest balance factors for a Warlock is the small number of Invocations they get, each Eldritch Blast invocation they take is one less Spell like Invocation they can take, and vice versa. For the record an Archer character will easily do more damage than a Warlock, even given the fact a Warlock with his ranged touch attacks will often hit with their one range attack.</p><p></p><p>A Warlock in terms of power I think stacks up with the bard, a Warlock is a bit more offensively minded of course, but is not a sheer powerhouse when compared to a specialized character. Like a bard, when the Warlock has alot of little things going, they can be very potent, and a smart and creative player can find ways to make them useful, even if it is activating the Invocation that adds a +6 bonus all day long to their intimdate skill and using it on a bad guy to give them a minus to their checks.</p><p></p><p>Another positive is the class has alot of flavor and is easily accesible by new players. The Warlock in my campaign is played by an old Vampire player, and he simply was overwhelmed by the </p><p>sheer number of choices one has to make with a D20 D&D character, the interplay of feats and spells and skills can be very daunting to a person used to a very defined set of powers.</p><p>Stating up a Warlock is a very easy prospect; limited feats, limited powers, and no need for killer stats.</p><p></p><p>The player is happy with it, which means at the moment I am quite happy with the class.</p><p></p><p>ps Incoporeal Undead will rock a Warlock.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="satori01, post: 2373592, member: 7859"] Ok a couple of points: The power ARandomGod is refering to is the Utterblast power which is one of the top tiers powers of the Warlock class. The subject needs to make a fort save or gain two negative levels that disapear in one hour, this invocation is supposed to be equavilent to an eighth level spell. The earliest a Warlock could chose this power is 16th level. Now Everyone go check the fourth level Enevation spell. Please note that this fourth level spell can have double the effect and double the duration at a much lower character level. Sure a Warlock can throw Utterblast around ad infinitum, but in game terms a 16th level Sorcerer with this or a Necromancer with a wand can essentially do it as much as a Warlock. Keep in mind Deathward will negate both the Enevation spell and the Utterblast invocation, but while the 16th level sorcerer has only wasted a fourth level spell, the Warlock's highest level power is now non effective. All thanks to a fourth level spell. Most Warlock powers are like that. Now regarding the Evard's Black Tentacle Invocation, like the spell anyone entering the area of effect is subject to it. If the Warlock is in a group of Archers then yeah it could be bad, but then again a group of Archers with a Druid and not a Warlock can be just as bad, given the right circumstance and an entange spell, or a web spell or any battlefield controlling spell. A Warlock in a group of tanks in probably not going to chose this invocation due to the risk of grappling his own party mates at worst, or slowing their movement to half at best. Paper tiger argument. One of the biggest balance factors for a Warlock is the small number of Invocations they get, each Eldritch Blast invocation they take is one less Spell like Invocation they can take, and vice versa. For the record an Archer character will easily do more damage than a Warlock, even given the fact a Warlock with his ranged touch attacks will often hit with their one range attack. A Warlock in terms of power I think stacks up with the bard, a Warlock is a bit more offensively minded of course, but is not a sheer powerhouse when compared to a specialized character. Like a bard, when the Warlock has alot of little things going, they can be very potent, and a smart and creative player can find ways to make them useful, even if it is activating the Invocation that adds a +6 bonus all day long to their intimdate skill and using it on a bad guy to give them a minus to their checks. Another positive is the class has alot of flavor and is easily accesible by new players. The Warlock in my campaign is played by an old Vampire player, and he simply was overwhelmed by the sheer number of choices one has to make with a D20 D&D character, the interplay of feats and spells and skills can be very daunting to a person used to a very defined set of powers. Stating up a Warlock is a very easy prospect; limited feats, limited powers, and no need for killer stats. The player is happy with it, which means at the moment I am quite happy with the class. ps Incoporeal Undead will rock a Warlock. [/QUOTE]
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