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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jackinthegreen" data-source="post: 6092262" data-attributes="member: 6678119">It seems you missed my intent with that.Long story short, all I have seen so far out of your stories is that you feel "The DM is screwing us over" partly because that's also somewhat in line with your "I'll get them next time" DM style so you expect it of everyone.  Thinking that the DM is screwing you over in the first place is definitely not contributing to the cooperation needed to create a good story.  You have no trust in the DM or the players essentially.  Celebrim's players now that even if it might look like he's pushing some checks, those things can still create interesting narratives and deserve to be played out.  Those ride checks can certainly make the story more memorable because there can be close calls and even failures.  "After a sudden turn Gloin the dwarf managed to stay on the centipede, but Hank the human cleric couldn't keep steady and fell off."  And then Gloin says "If a dwarf can keep riding this thing, surely a human can too!  Get up lad." And then when Hank reaches up and pulls the dwarf by the beard "NOT THE BEARD!" and they both go down and have a laugh.Do you think failing at any one part of the game is indicative that that's the way the rest of the game will go?  That's nuts.  Sometimes the characters need to fail to create an interesting story.  I'm reminded of the part in Lord of the Rings where Gimli is all "I have the eyes of a hawk and the ears of a fox!" and almost immediately the elves have the party surrounded and are saying "We could have shot the dwarf in the dark, his breathing was so loud."  In short, the party failed their listen and spot checks against the hide and move silently checks of the elves.  It not only progressed the story, but the audience got a chuckle out of it.  And I imagine the elves and the fellowship got a chuckle out of it too once they took a step back and looked at the situation.In short, pretty much everything in D&D can be a fun experience.  It's up to the players and DM to not be so uptight as to ruin those experiences.  It's a fine line between knowing what will enable memorable and exciting experiences and what will disable them, and both players and DMs have to watch out for that.  Sometimes someone might go over the line and make things difficult and frustrating, but the act of getting back on track can also be rewarding in and of itself.  Going even further off and into thinking that someone can't be trusted to create memorable experiences and thus should be shut down seems antithetical to really getting the most out of the D&D game.These surprise moments might be strains on the trust between players and DMs, but they might also be enablers.  It's all in how you look at them and react to them.</blockquote>

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