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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6093072" data-attributes="member: 4937">PC #1:&nbsp; &quot;Ok, we encounter Odin, the Alfadur.&nbsp; His battered and bruised body is bound to the trunk of the World Ash.&nbsp; He's bleeding badly out of his eye where the Norns have just rudely plucked it from his head.&nbsp; He mutters incoherently, something about his thirst perhaps and then slips off again into unconsciousness.&nbsp; He looks helpless and like he has maybe one hit point left.&quot;PC #2: &quot;Well, we can't let the old man suffer.&nbsp; I coup de grace the All Father&quot;PC #3: &quot;We rock.&nbsp; Whose next?&quot;You can't challenge a player that can scene frame.&nbsp; That's why narrative games are either explicitly not about contest or have very careful rules about how you can scene frame.&nbsp; Or both.Stakes?&nbsp; Simulationist games don't have stakes, or at least mine doesn't.&nbsp; Stakes imply foreknowledge of outcomes.&nbsp; How could I know what the stakes are?&nbsp; How could I know if they matter?No, I don't really ever know what the stakes are.&nbsp; The stakes evolve as play develops.&nbsp; Stakes have to do with goals.&nbsp;&nbsp; An NPC may have stakes in the scene.&nbsp; A PC may have stakes in the seen.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't as the DM have stakes in the scene, nor do I always determine what stakes the NPC has.&nbsp; The NPC will determine his stakes in responce to what the PC does.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't really have any vested interest in the stakes, and I never really consider stakes when setting a scene.&nbsp; Stakes are irrelevant.&nbsp; They show up explicitly in fortune at the end nar games.&nbsp; It's a consensual story telling idea where you have multiple full authors and you need to resolve conflict between them.&nbsp; I never really think about stakes in my game at any point.&nbsp; They really don't have anything to do with my play.&nbsp; If you are trying to force my game into some nar construct, you're misunderstanding it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6093072, member: 4937"] PC #1: "Ok, we encounter Odin, the Alfadur. His battered and bruised body is bound to the trunk of the World Ash. He's bleeding badly out of his eye where the Norns have just rudely plucked it from his head. He mutters incoherently, something about his thirst perhaps and then slips off again into unconsciousness. He looks helpless and like he has maybe one hit point left." PC #2: "Well, we can't let the old man suffer. I coup de grace the All Father" PC #3: "We rock. Whose next?" You can't challenge a player that can scene frame. That's why narrative games are either explicitly not about contest or have very careful rules about how you can scene frame. Or both. Stakes? Simulationist games don't have stakes, or at least mine doesn't. Stakes imply foreknowledge of outcomes. How could I know what the stakes are? How could I know if they matter? No, I don't really ever know what the stakes are. The stakes evolve as play develops. Stakes have to do with goals. An NPC may have stakes in the scene. A PC may have stakes in the seen. I don't as the DM have stakes in the scene, nor do I always determine what stakes the NPC has. The NPC will determine his stakes in responce to what the PC does. I don't really have any vested interest in the stakes, and I never really consider stakes when setting a scene. Stakes are irrelevant. They show up explicitly in fortune at the end nar games. It's a consensual story telling idea where you have multiple full authors and you need to resolve conflict between them. I never really think about stakes in my game at any point. They really don't have anything to do with my play. If you are trying to force my game into some nar construct, you're misunderstanding it. [/QUOTE]

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