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You're doing what? Surprising the DM
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6093657" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>In 1e, that trick wasn't possible, since the amulet only effected the wearer and could not be used to transport anyone else. In 2e, that trick still wasn't possible - the 2e version is almost identically worded to the 1e version except for the names of the planes. In 3e, that trick also wasn't possible. In 3e, the amulet allows the player to cast 'Plane Shift' which can be used per its description as a touch attack (this is why if you were surprised by this, every DM should study intently any magic item that enters the campaign). It's a 7th level spell, save negates, and at 7th level a touch attack spell can have any effect equivalent to 'save or die'. So, first the Black Dragon gets to use a saving throw to resist a 7th level spell. Assuming that happened, if the PC planeshifted with the Dragon the DM than the PC must be able to survive arrival there. I know many DMs would rule that if you arrive on the elemental plane of earth without some sort of planar protection/adaptation, you're just dead. And some which aren't so brutal would rule that you now can't breath (no air), can't talk (no air, and also your face is encased in solid stone), and therefore cannot audibly say the command word required to use the device. Others might require a concentration check to say the word correctly while applying suffocation rules. All are valid rulings provided they are consistant. But even if the PC could planeshift back, which isn't a given, he couldn't 'teleport' back. Instead he planeshifts back, arriving in a random direction 5d100 miles from his intended destination. That could be inconvenient. Fortunately, in 3e there was no need to transport the player with the Dragon in the first place. You can just directly banish him to another plane.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>That's sometimes the important part though. The rule of cool sometimes trumps the rules. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Lesson: high level players can't be forced to wilderness trek in anything like a normal wilderness because they can camp whereever they like. You've got to roll with that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure it is a question of whether he would have fun. It's just that you can't expect a player not to use all of his available resources to his advantage.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the cause of one of the few times I really walked away from a DM, one I had really enjoyed playing with. It was the experience of finding that whatever danger I prepared for, I would face because the DM was creating all the defenses in responce to my actions. Traps sometimes existed if you didn't search for them, but they ALWAYS existed if you did search for them. And I'm not talking about searching every step, I'm talking about searching things that you'd reasonably expect to have traps like chests or doors. Thus, I learned you discovered less traps if you didn't search for them, and so it was far better just to occasionally spring one and let the DM say, "You should have checked for traps". Meanwhile, monsters sometimes were present when you didn't expect it, but ALWAYS existed in and in greater numbers the more you prepared. It was the exact opposite of rewarding skill play. I got to do the ultimate test. The same environment completely reconfigured itself for two different parties. A corridor full of traps that would have turned the fighters to mince meat, transformed into a corridor full of monsters that would have turned my thief to mince meat. But the problem was that also meant that there was no fixed challenge facing me. It was like a DM inventing Tomb of Horrors on the fly where he got to decide everything you did was wrong on the fly. I actually loved Tomb of Horrors because there were discoverable 'right answers', but its impossible to improv Tomb of Horrors or to play in an improv Tomb of Horrors.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6093657, member: 4937"] In 1e, that trick wasn't possible, since the amulet only effected the wearer and could not be used to transport anyone else. In 2e, that trick still wasn't possible - the 2e version is almost identically worded to the 1e version except for the names of the planes. In 3e, that trick also wasn't possible. In 3e, the amulet allows the player to cast 'Plane Shift' which can be used per its description as a touch attack (this is why if you were surprised by this, every DM should study intently any magic item that enters the campaign). It's a 7th level spell, save negates, and at 7th level a touch attack spell can have any effect equivalent to 'save or die'. So, first the Black Dragon gets to use a saving throw to resist a 7th level spell. Assuming that happened, if the PC planeshifted with the Dragon the DM than the PC must be able to survive arrival there. I know many DMs would rule that if you arrive on the elemental plane of earth without some sort of planar protection/adaptation, you're just dead. And some which aren't so brutal would rule that you now can't breath (no air), can't talk (no air, and also your face is encased in solid stone), and therefore cannot audibly say the command word required to use the device. Others might require a concentration check to say the word correctly while applying suffocation rules. All are valid rulings provided they are consistant. But even if the PC could planeshift back, which isn't a given, he couldn't 'teleport' back. Instead he planeshifts back, arriving in a random direction 5d100 miles from his intended destination. That could be inconvenient. Fortunately, in 3e there was no need to transport the player with the Dragon in the first place. You can just directly banish him to another plane. That's sometimes the important part though. The rule of cool sometimes trumps the rules. Lesson: high level players can't be forced to wilderness trek in anything like a normal wilderness because they can camp whereever they like. You've got to roll with that. I'm not sure it is a question of whether he would have fun. It's just that you can't expect a player not to use all of his available resources to his advantage. This is the cause of one of the few times I really walked away from a DM, one I had really enjoyed playing with. It was the experience of finding that whatever danger I prepared for, I would face because the DM was creating all the defenses in responce to my actions. Traps sometimes existed if you didn't search for them, but they ALWAYS existed if you did search for them. And I'm not talking about searching every step, I'm talking about searching things that you'd reasonably expect to have traps like chests or doors. Thus, I learned you discovered less traps if you didn't search for them, and so it was far better just to occasionally spring one and let the DM say, "You should have checked for traps". Meanwhile, monsters sometimes were present when you didn't expect it, but ALWAYS existed in and in greater numbers the more you prepared. It was the exact opposite of rewarding skill play. I got to do the ultimate test. The same environment completely reconfigured itself for two different parties. A corridor full of traps that would have turned the fighters to mince meat, transformed into a corridor full of monsters that would have turned my thief to mince meat. But the problem was that also meant that there was no fixed challenge facing me. It was like a DM inventing Tomb of Horrors on the fly where he got to decide everything you did was wrong on the fly. I actually loved Tomb of Horrors because there were discoverable 'right answers', but its impossible to improv Tomb of Horrors or to play in an improv Tomb of Horrors. Absolutely [/QUOTE]
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