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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jackinthegreen" data-source="post: 6095943" data-attributes="member: 6678119"><a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#dustofDisappearance" target="_blank">Dust of Disappearance's</a> rules are as follows:     The first sentence isn't pertinent to this discussion.The second sentence spells out the creature or object touched becomes invisible as per greater invisibility.  Note that it only seems to mention the invisibility aspect of the spell, which is possibly where this thread's disagreement is coming from.  If it's read as simply "the dust only copies the invisibility aspect of greater invisibility" then there is no save because the saving throw part of greater invisibility isn't being referred to.  It's essentially saying "Except for every other part of the spell, this item's invisibility effect functions as greater invisibility."What happens if a save isn't mentioned though?  So far I'm seeing all magic items that allow a save explicitly say what the save is. (Necklace of Fireballs is listed as DC 14 Reflex for example).  Where is the save for the Dust?  How is one to determine what the save would be in the first place if one was allowed, but not mentioned in the item's description?  Using Scribe Scroll's rules would say its effect was based on the caster/creator, but potentially having different save strengths is counter to standardizing the item's creation in the first place.  The item's cost also plays a factor in this because paying 3,500g for a greater invisibility effect that has the potential to only last 2 rounds is quite high unless the item doesn't allow a save.  Then it's still high, but at least it's reliable enough that it's worth making and using in the first place.Of course, one might read the lack of save as an oversight on the part of WotC.  They might have assumed it would only be used on a willing subject.  Can we reasonably assume they would have added a save on an unwilling subject?  Maybe.  But then one still has to wonder what the save would have been in the first place.  Then again, perhaps they wanted it to always be useful and reliable in actually producing its effect, thus they decided there would be no save.  My thoughts are it's somewhat difficult to make assumptions about their intent.The third sentence describes what can't see through it, which includes normal vision and magical means such as see invisibility or invisibility purge.  One might read that as only applying to normal vision, so a Dreamsight Elite Shifter might be able to see the invisible creature, but it seems safe to say the designers did intend the item's invisibility to not be pierced by any normal or magical means.The fourth sentence is an exception to the third.  It specifically states that Dust of Appearance reveals a creature or object under the effect of Dust of Appearance.The fifth sentence seems to reinforce the idea that standard or magically-enhanced sight can't be used to detect something under the effect of DoD.The sixth sentence says that the effect's duration is 2d6 rounds, which can be thought of as a further exception to the second sentence, or it can be clarifying it if one read the second sentence as "this item only replicates the invisibility effect of greater invisibility."  I suppose "how long will it work?" is more interesting than "will it work at all?"The seventh sentence states that the creature doesn't know when it will become visible, so it can't plan on doing something at a certain time.  This ties in with the above point of "how long will it work?" being interesting.Basically, it seems preposterous to think that Dust of Disappearance does have a save simply because it lists greater invisibility as an effect.  There is no save listed for it, and deciding what the save would be if it was allowed would be tedious and counter-intuitive to the intent of the item in the first place.  Justin, you're wrong.  Now, if you were to change its effects for your own campaign, that's fine.  But its effects as in the rules show that it does not have a save.</blockquote>

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