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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6099098" data-attributes="member: 22779">Celebrim, you make good points.&nbsp; I'm not sure I 100% agree with you, but they are good points.&nbsp; However, (and you knew that was coming) where I think we differ is in the amount of stuff we need to make something important.I've been playing for about thirty years now.&nbsp; Like many people here.&nbsp; That's nothing unusual.&nbsp; I've played in more campaigns than I can actually count, both as a DM and a player.&nbsp; Again, nothing new there.&nbsp; I'm the same as pretty much anyone else around here who's played for as long as we have.&nbsp; But, something I've realized is that despite playing in literally over a hundred campaigns over the years, I can count on one hand the number of campaigns that have come to a satisfactory conclusion and still have fingers left over.&nbsp; Now, that conclusion could be a TPK, it could be retiring the characters, it could be a lot of things.&nbsp; But, almost always, it doesn't happen.&nbsp; What happens, IME, is that we start some campaign, play it for several months, and then something comes in and the campaign dies an ignoble death.&nbsp; The DM gets burned out.&nbsp; Someone or several someone's move away and the campaign dies.&nbsp; The new shiny comes along and everyone jumps ship.&nbsp; Whatever.&nbsp; There are a billion reasons why the campaign died.&nbsp; But, almost all those reasons can be summed up as:&nbsp; Time.&nbsp; Time kills campaigns.&nbsp; The longer the campaign goes, the closer the chances of the campaign imploding approaches 100%.&nbsp; I've actually had three satisfactorily completed campaigns in thirty years.&nbsp; Three.&nbsp; So, when DM's tell me &quot;it's the journey&quot; that's important, I really, really have to disagree.&nbsp; I've done the journey.&nbsp; I've done the journey so many times that, by and large, that's all I've ever done.So, for me, and only for my taste, I would much, much rather go through ten campaigns that were shallow and simple but actually come to some sort of resolution than slog through yet another deep and meaningful one that dies halfway through.&nbsp; I have no interest in that game anymore.&nbsp; I don't want to play.&nbsp; No matter how good it is.&nbsp; No matter if Gygax himself rose from the grave alongside the greatest role players in existence, I still don't want to play in yet another campaign that dies before the end.&nbsp; Getting to the end is the primary, key criteria for a campaign for me now.&nbsp; Everything else is secondary.&nbsp; Nothing else is as important.&nbsp; At least, not to me.&nbsp; Which means, to me again, you skip over anything that is not directly related to achieving that end point.&nbsp; And, if you want a new end point and keep the characters going?&nbsp; Great.&nbsp; No problem.&nbsp; But, without end points, I have no interest in the campaign.So, if I go to hire someone, I want a scene that takes about as long as the Mos Eisely cantina scene to play out.&nbsp; What a total of five minutes and done?&nbsp; That's the pacing I'm looking for.&nbsp; My perfect campaign would be one in which you could achieve everything that is achieved in Star Wars A New Hope in exactly the same time as the movie lasts.&nbsp; In two hours of play, we would go from Tatooine to blowing up the Death Star and I would be the happiest gamer alive.Now, I realize that that's never, ever going to happen.&nbsp; I know that.&nbsp; And I'm being a bit facetious.&nbsp; But, at the core, I still feel that way.&nbsp; Full, FULL throttle.&nbsp; Scenes should last twenty minutes max.&nbsp; Combat might be a bit longer, depending on the system.&nbsp; Anything, be it combat or non-combat, that takes longer than an hour, maybe an hour and a half to resolve better be the climax of the campaign or I'd much, much rather just skip it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6099098, member: 22779"] Celebrim, you make good points. I'm not sure I 100% agree with you, but they are good points. However, (and you knew that was coming) where I think we differ is in the amount of stuff we need to make something important. I've been playing for about thirty years now. Like many people here. That's nothing unusual. I've played in more campaigns than I can actually count, both as a DM and a player. Again, nothing new there. I'm the same as pretty much anyone else around here who's played for as long as we have. But, something I've realized is that despite playing in literally over a hundred campaigns over the years, I can count on one hand the number of campaigns that have come to a satisfactory conclusion and still have fingers left over. Now, that conclusion could be a TPK, it could be retiring the characters, it could be a lot of things. But, almost always, it doesn't happen. What happens, IME, is that we start some campaign, play it for several months, and then something comes in and the campaign dies an ignoble death. The DM gets burned out. Someone or several someone's move away and the campaign dies. The new shiny comes along and everyone jumps ship. Whatever. There are a billion reasons why the campaign died. But, almost all those reasons can be summed up as: Time. Time kills campaigns. The longer the campaign goes, the closer the chances of the campaign imploding approaches 100%. I've actually had three satisfactorily completed campaigns in thirty years. Three. So, when DM's tell me "it's the journey" that's important, I really, really have to disagree. I've done the journey. I've done the journey so many times that, by and large, that's all I've ever done. So, for me, and only for my taste, I would much, much rather go through ten campaigns that were shallow and simple but actually come to some sort of resolution than slog through yet another deep and meaningful one that dies halfway through. I have no interest in that game anymore. I don't want to play. No matter how good it is. No matter if Gygax himself rose from the grave alongside the greatest role players in existence, I still don't want to play in yet another campaign that dies before the end. Getting to the end is the primary, key criteria for a campaign for me now. Everything else is secondary. Nothing else is as important. At least, not to me. Which means, to me again, you skip over anything that is not directly related to achieving that end point. And, if you want a new end point and keep the characters going? Great. No problem. But, without end points, I have no interest in the campaign. So, if I go to hire someone, I want a scene that takes about as long as the Mos Eisely cantina scene to play out. What a total of five minutes and done? That's the pacing I'm looking for. My perfect campaign would be one in which you could achieve everything that is achieved in Star Wars A New Hope in exactly the same time as the movie lasts. In two hours of play, we would go from Tatooine to blowing up the Death Star and I would be the happiest gamer alive. Now, I realize that that's never, ever going to happen. I know that. And I'm being a bit facetious. But, at the core, I still feel that way. Full, FULL throttle. Scenes should last twenty minutes max. Combat might be a bit longer, depending on the system. Anything, be it combat or non-combat, that takes longer than an hour, maybe an hour and a half to resolve better be the climax of the campaign or I'd much, much rather just skip it. [/QUOTE]

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