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<blockquote data-quote="Nagol" data-source="post: 6101389" data-attributes="member: 23935">It may not have existed in all editions and the reason it was included in the edition being played is irrelevant.&nbsp; The players knew that using plane shift to try to get to the goal would leave them likely a few hundred miles away and they didn't make substantive plans to remedy that situation with the potential resources at their disposal -- and there are many in the system.&nbsp; Therefore they accepted that plane shift was going to be only the first step needed to achieve their goal.&nbsp; So the players should expect to be presented a scene where they can pursue their next step and have their next gambit adjudicated.&nbsp;&nbsp; Perhaps, perhaps not.&nbsp; The goal was in the city and Hussar has stated he was fixated on that goal and didn't believe any other object would attract his attention.&nbsp; Invading then enemy's palace would not bring the group closer to the goal.&nbsp; D&amp;D has quite a few (and to many people's belief too many) &quot;fine we do so&quot; abilities. Even walking uses that basic mechanic.&nbsp; The only rolls typicaly necessary are random encounter checks and IIRC the suggested frequency is a few checks per day with low chance of an encounter per check.Teleport especially combined with Levitate (or a few since you can teleport to a place you can see), Overland Flight, magical flight items, Greater Teleport, Wind Walk, and Shadow Walk, are the basics that spring to mind at about the power level of Plane Shift.&nbsp; And those are from the core books.&nbsp; Including more material (like Binders) means there are a lot more abiliites available.&nbsp; There are also stronger abilities that can be pursued that don't have the imprecision of plane shift if the group was intent on getting to the goal immediately.&nbsp; If the group wants to achieve the goal immediately, it is incumbent on the group to plan and prepare the necessary resources to do so.&nbsp; The group should not introduce complications it doesn't want to deal with and expect to handwave them because they're not fun.&nbsp; If they're not fun don't put yourself in them to begin with or have prepared solutions to limit the time you are engaged in them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nagol, post: 6101389, member: 23935"] It may not have existed in all editions and the reason it was included in the edition being played is irrelevant. The players knew that using plane shift to try to get to the [I]goal[/I] would leave them likely a few hundred miles away and they didn't make substantive plans to remedy that situation with the potential resources at their disposal -- and there are many in the system. Therefore they accepted that plane shift was going to be only the first step needed to achieve their goal. So the players should expect to be presented a scene where they can pursue their next step and have their next gambit adjudicated. Perhaps, perhaps not. The [I]goal[/I] was in the city and Hussar has stated he was fixated on that goal and didn't believe any other object would attract his attention. Invading then enemy's palace would not bring the group closer to the [I]goal[/I]. D&D has quite a few (and to many people's belief too many) "fine we do so" abilities. Even walking uses that basic mechanic. The only rolls typicaly necessary are random encounter checks and IIRC the suggested frequency is a few checks per day with low chance of an encounter per check. Teleport especially combined with Levitate (or a few since you can teleport to a place you can see), Overland Flight, magical flight items, Greater Teleport, Wind Walk, and Shadow Walk, are the basics that spring to mind at about the power level of Plane Shift. And those are from the core books. Including more material (like Binders) means there are a lot more abiliites available. There are also stronger abilities that can be pursued that don't have the imprecision of plane shift if the group was intent on getting to the [I]goal[/I] immediately. If the group wants to achieve the [I]goal[/I] immediately, it is incumbent on the group to plan and prepare the necessary resources to do so. The group should not introduce complications it doesn't want to deal with and expect to handwave them because they're not fun. If they're not fun don't put yourself in them to begin with or have prepared solutions to limit the time you are engaged in them. [/QUOTE]

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