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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6103933" data-attributes="member: 4937">Where in the heck do you get that?  What he describes in 2 was never what I claimed wasn't viable.  What I claimed wasn't viable, and still do, was the use of scene framing by players, which we've now long since established you agree with me on now that we are no longer using scene framing to mean things as broad as offering up a player proposition to be resolved by the action resolution mechanics.  As you say, "The reason for giving the GM the actual job is to allow the GM to bring various elements of backstory, foreshadowing etc into the scene which the players aren't in the same position to do (because it is hard to frame a challenge for yourself, or to pose to yourself a question with a secret answer)."I've read your play examples.  They don't strike me as being particularly nar or experimental in your play.  You run a pretty standard game high level open world game with continiously GM initiated challenge that wouldn't have been of much surprise to me back in 1990.   You clearly aren't even as heavily thespian in your play as I encourage especially considering the sheer density of combat at your table, I wonder how you have any time to even explore player initiated literary themes or beliefs.   In all those dozen examples I really haven't been able to sort through and find one thing that was clearly being driven by player story cues rather than simple proposition.  In fact, if I had to guess, my complaint about your table as a player would be that your - at least as it comes out in the stories - too focused on continious GM initiated challenge, combat, and mechanical advancement and it ultimately just feels at least through the writing as being too often fundamentally indistinguishable from a long serious of random encounters on a largely empty battle map where the GM opened the MM picked an monster and said, "Hey, this might be fun."But even with that, your 'social encounter' only session that is mostly free roleplay, or your prep of exploratory play where you prep fairly heavily, reconfigure some ideas to fit your particular conception, and insert new details as needed during play, could have been any of my sessions and both sound like fun.  I mean, there are some mechanical differences because you are fitting into the 4e framework, and I'd tend to do more what you did with the interogation of free play leading up to a check and possibly a serious of those leading to different complications, but I'm just not seeing any sort of purism on your part standing in sharp contrast to any sort of purism on my part.</blockquote>

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