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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6105095" data-attributes="member: 22779">Just as a point about choosing the most punishing interpretation, let's recap shall we?In the centipede example, Celebrim would force several skill checks that the PC's are virtually guaranteed to fail.&nbsp; N'raac would have elements in the desert that are key to achieving our goals at the city, but without any reason for the players to actually try to search for those keys.&nbsp; After all, there is no way for the players to have known about the desert nomads, nor any prisoners they had beforehand.&nbsp; I'm still rather confused what N'raac would have done with a group with access to teleport or Overland Flight.In the Grell example, Celebrim would cause the group to fail off screen by having the grell just leave, even though the group is also forced to spend significant table time recruiting assistance in order to defeat the grell.&nbsp; In the horse buying scenario, the player is forced to spend table time shopping for horses.&nbsp; If the player does not, there is a &quot;chance&quot; that the horse will be lame.&nbsp; I put that in scare quotes, because, IME, any DM who thinks this way is automatically going to have the horse be lame with an aha-gotcha moment.&nbsp; Have I somehow made a mistake here?&nbsp; Are these not the rulings that Celebrim and N'raac are advocating?&nbsp; &nbsp;[MENTION=37609]Jameson[/MENTION] Courage - you brought up the idea of players skipping over other player's interesting scenes.&nbsp; IMO, this is not a very high chance, since most players are pretty willing to sit back and let other people have the spotlight.&nbsp; But, in every example in this thread, it's the spotlighted player who wants to skip forward, but the DM who is blocking that.&nbsp; Despite all of Celebrim's and N'raac's protestations, they have not put forward a single reason why another player at the table would want to play through these scenes.&nbsp; We've seen many, many examples of why the DM might want to play through things, but, the other players?&nbsp; Pretty much silence.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6105095, member: 22779"] Just as a point about choosing the most punishing interpretation, let's recap shall we? In the centipede example, Celebrim would force several skill checks that the PC's are virtually guaranteed to fail. N'raac would have elements in the desert that are key to achieving our goals at the city, but without any reason for the players to actually try to search for those keys. After all, there is no way for the players to have known about the desert nomads, nor any prisoners they had beforehand. I'm still rather confused what N'raac would have done with a group with access to teleport or Overland Flight. In the Grell example, Celebrim would cause the group to fail off screen by having the grell just leave, even though the group is also forced to spend significant table time recruiting assistance in order to defeat the grell. In the horse buying scenario, the player is forced to spend table time shopping for horses. If the player does not, there is a "chance" that the horse will be lame. I put that in scare quotes, because, IME, any DM who thinks this way is automatically going to have the horse be lame with an aha-gotcha moment. Have I somehow made a mistake here? Are these not the rulings that Celebrim and N'raac are advocating? [MENTION=37609]Jameson[/MENTION] Courage - you brought up the idea of players skipping over other player's interesting scenes. IMO, this is not a very high chance, since most players are pretty willing to sit back and let other people have the spotlight. But, in every example in this thread, it's the spotlighted player who wants to skip forward, but the DM who is blocking that. Despite all of Celebrim's and N'raac's protestations, they have not put forward a single reason why another player at the table would want to play through these scenes. We've seen many, many examples of why the DM might want to play through things, but, the other players? Pretty much silence. [/QUOTE]

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