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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6105119" data-attributes="member: 4937">Ok, so you really want to keep bringing me in to this?  A DC 15 ride check leading to at most a few spills is virtually gauranteed failure for a party high enough level to be Planeshifting to the Abyss?  Really?  You think you are fairly recapping my views here, given my page 1 assertion that "In short, I expect none of these issues to present insurmountable problems to a party, but I do expect the journey to go less than smoothly - however much it may beat walking."?  I have covered this example in far more detail than it deserves.  But since you want to provide a punishing interpretation of my views, let's recap with the gloves off this time shall we?You want to keep misrepresenting my position, fine.  It's been pretty clear from the beginning that misrepresentation is your thing.  I've already done a definitive wall of text analysis to show that even on your own terms, the Centipede scene was you railroading a DM by misrepresenting your character abilities on multiple levels.  That you didn't make ride skill checks were the least of the problems here.  You're not upset because the DM made you to play it out, because by your account that didn't happen - you were crowing your success in this scene.  You weren't actually metagamed against.  The DM let you have your way.  Because by your own account you railroaded the DM past the scene via distortion of the rules and very likely emotional and possibly physical intimidation of the DM resulting in your 'leaving' or possibly being expelled from the group (you are a bit unclear on that point).  Your whole stake in this wasn't that the DM forced you to have encounters, forced you to spend a lot of time in the desert or anything of the sort, because by your own account none of that happened.  Your still crowing your 'victory' over the DM on this, and still angry about this whole thing years afterwards because the DM dared challenge your authority - an authority which I repeat was based on nothing less than cheating and your decision to throw the rules of the game out the window in order to get your way.  It was you getting your way that was the only thing you really cared about in the scene, because by your own account you don't even remember why you wanted to get across the wasteland in the first place.  You had no investment in the plot or anything else except getting your way.  You can't get along with DMs because you keep projecting on to them your own unbreakable insistance that you always have it your way.  You've repeatedly refused to provide context to this situation, leaving people struggling with hypotheticals that you gleefully treat as straw men, because I'm pretty sure you know that if we had the larger context it would put you in a bad light, and your whole thing from the beginning - that DMs are just bad people that try to crush players fun - would get derailed.Have I somehow made a mistake here?  Am I misconstruing you?Why do I have to keep repeating myself?  I've written lengthy posts on this very appeal to the galleries assertion by you before.  I don't feel the need to debunk the same dang thing again.  I don't need to recap my position, nor do I feel compelled to do anything but laugh at the assertion that my lengthy discussion of all the possibilities of the scene framing around the grell battle could be summed up as "having the grell just leave".  You keep grasping on the rope like a drowning man, but it isn't going to pull you out of this.And again, there is a "chance" that Hussar will get shirty.   Mind you, I've pretty firmly squashed the particular innuendo you are throwing around here.  I'm basically being quoted here when you talk about "gotcha", because that's the exact word I used to disparage a DM acting unjustly that you are now turning around to slander me as being unjust.  What's really going on here is that if the DM assigns a 1 and 6 chance of Hussar failing, and it comes up 1 Hussar gets "shirty" because any situation that challenges Hussar right to success can't be allowed to stand and he goes and finds a different table and spends the next 15 years spreading stories about how he was abused to anyone who will listen.Somehow?  I think I'm way past giving you benefit of the doubt that all this miscontruing is a mistake.  Let me ask you a question; how many of these groups have you left where they have been happy to see you go?  I wasn't there.  I can think of plenty of hypothetical players that would jump on that.  We even had one commenter in this thread jump on the "Grell isn't here" bit that probably wouldn't have even been my first choice with the comment like, "Good think I have the Track feat".   But what is really more pertinent is the idea that somehow DM's and players have conflicting interests that pervades your analysis of all of this, that somehow the DM and the players can't be wanting the same thing and that the mark of a DM is that he's always conceding, acquiesing, etc. as if it was like bizarre to have players that actually stepped up to challenge, liked raised stakes, wanted to explore, wanted to earn their victories and overcome the odds, etc.  Instead of for example, people who cheat and get shirty all the time.  I mean, the funny thing is that the stance you are hating on here isn't antagonism, but rather GM as referee stance.  You don't want to play by the rules.  If the DM isn't ruling everything in your favor every time by the most expedient method, you take your marbles and go home, and you can't seem to get it through your head that most players out there really don't want things just given to them.  You are still harping on how you had to play out the hiring process, but noone made you do that.  "Ok your all hired", would have got you back at the cave in 5 minutes if that's what you really wanted, but you can't even be honest in this thread about what you really wanted - you have to pretend that the problem was 'pacing'.  I've said time and time again, my overriding DMing philosophy is simple, "Be the DM I would want to have as a player."</blockquote>

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