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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6107516" data-attributes="member: 4937">A lot of them.  A significant number of the arguments are owed to people (me included) providing counter-examples of how a hypothetical wilderness expedition could be relevant to play and interesting because the exact details of the initial scenario were vague.  Each of those counter examples then led to people focusing on particular parts of the example as being uninteresting, which lead to people providing counter examples of how that could be interesting and relevant to the player focused goals/story as well depending on what that goal or story might be.  Along side that we got into an argument about whether we should skip a scene which might be interesting to hypothetical players, but not to the one real player (Hussar), and how table conflicts between players should be resolved.  But we probably wouldn't even talked about that if we hadn't initially been led to discuss in the abstract how to make wilderness travel interesting for players that don't have an exploration agenda (like Hussar).  There has also been a great deal of confusion because some people are taking one of a long list of possible resolutions or methodologies as being the one definitive way that the person who suggested it as a possibility would do things, rather than as an example of an alternate resolution that could be justified on a case by case basis.  This tends to lead to lots of straw men where the person grabs that suggestions, transports it to a wildly different counter-example of their own inventing, and uses it to show just how different their style of play is from the person they are quoting because in that particular case they'd run their game differently than the poster would have run it .... in a completely different situation.Proof by exhaustion probably woldn't have been anyone's preferred mode of discussion had we started with anything else to talk about.  At one point, I even set out to write a long post on scene framing where I discussed the strengths and weaknesses of all the different broad approaches you could use and when you might favor one over another.  But then I realized, "This is just crazy."  It was like trying to write a definitive tutorial on the art of DMing.  The more I thought about it, the more complex and book like in form it became.</blockquote>

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