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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6109603" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, yeah, but that's not a very strong observation.  We can also always postulate a player that is going to be unhappy with anything.   So, one of the strongest framings of a seige you could make in the original scenario is to introduce two of the three possible factions to the players - the demons and the fallen angels - and to have the 'seige' actually be a battle be waged around the Cathedral for contol of access to the Cathedral.  This lets of get the player involved, which they otherwise really won't be.  It's not sufficient to fix the scenario in my opinion, but it's a reasonable step.But, as I previously indicated, the strongest framing of the journey involves doing rather much the same, providing some sort of coveyance to the PC's that shortens the journey and then in the process of the journey introduce the competiting factions to the players to get them involved in the conflict.   Maybe you have one side raid the caravan, another side supply the caravan, maybe you encounter a battle between the two (it doesn't have to be at the Cathedral in order to convey the point).  This all relates directly to the player's goal and helps inform them about their destination and the setting in a way that the players just otherwise wouldn't be involved in because its not at all clear what is going on.  The players are unaware of the stakes, which can be dramatic if done right, but one of the more likely results of playing the scenario out as written with good characters is that the players will finish it and never really be involved in the themes or face the intended dramatic conflict.Either preparing these themes in the journey or in a 'seige' around the cathedral accomplishes the same purpose.  It's not at all clear to me which is better framing, but personally I prefer the caravan/conveyances because there is less chance of the players just missing it by evasion or brute forcing the problems they face.  Chances are, I'd do both and not risk it.</blockquote>

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