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Message: <blockquote data-quote="chaochou" data-source="post: 6110510" data-attributes="member: 99817">Who at the table who created this device? The GM? The players? And what do you mean by 'scenario'?What's a story arc? Who created it, and how?When was it decided that a roll is required to operate the device and who got a say in that decision? Why is the wizard rolling, not the rogue or fighter? Are the potential outcomes discussed prior to these rolls? Who gets to say what happens? Why doesn't the GM say "Nope, you're not where you'd thought you'd be. You're on totally the wrong plane. What can you see outside the device?"You use the word 'frame' there, but in your example the players aren't framing. The situation has been set. They are where they've been put and get to react.So this is specifically the Wizard's spotlight time?Does the wizard propose that this is a time machine and make a roll to have that affirmed in play? Or does he ask if it's a time machine and make a roll, the outcome of which is controlled by the GM?Good news? Who says what the Wizard's knowledge check indicates the lighthouse material is useful? The Wizard? The GM? The group?This ties back to who created the lighthouse - one method of play would see the players create the lighthouse and then tie it's usefulness (or not) to their own goals in some way. Another sees the GM narrate the lighthouse and the players 'ask questions' about it (the answers to which give the GM the required tools to guide the players along). The two don't mix very well.Why not simply say 'I'm sabotaging the machine in a way I can fix' and then engage the resolution mechanics. Why does the player need the GMs permission to do this? Who's in control here?Why not say this in the open so all the players can enjoy the subterfuge (even if their characters do not). Do these players not trust each other to make the game more fun?I'm interested in the fact that the one time in this whole example it's made explicit that a player is attempting to take some sort of mild initiative they feel the need to a) ask the GMs permission and b) do it in secret.The hints are that the GM is in complete control here, irrespective of whether it meets the group's approval or not. However, as my questions illustrate in most cases there's simply no indication of what's happening between the people at the table.</blockquote>

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