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You're doing what? Surprising the DM
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6110900" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>Instead, we get to guess which scene any given player may randomly hate. “We want to go to the city.” “You need to travel through the desert to get there.” That seems a petty common sequence, so predicting one of the players will “hate it” so much they will “go nuclear” and need to skip that “one scene in thousands” seems pretty unlikely.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Maybe it’s great planning by most of the players because they want to play out long distance travel as a challenge, and an opportunity to interact with the game world. As such, they specifically shy away from Teleport and Overland Flight spells. Then along comes some guy with a centipede summoning schtick who wants to ruin everyone else’s fun by handwaving all the travel scenes because he’s only interested in the destination and hates playing out the journey.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>We were told they CAN take proactive action to address the siege and they CANNOT take proactive action to address the desert. That “fact” was presented as the reason they want to interact with the siege and do not want to interact with the desert, despite the fact that both are obstacles delaying or impeding their ability to interact with the city. I do not find that logic correct – they can be proactive regarding siege or desert, so the stated reason for favouring one over the other is invalid.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Both can be relevant or irrelevant. In a previous post, I set out how the exact same complications you attribute to the siege can be attributed to the desert. These would make a person who could Teleport just as valuable in the absence of the siege. You ignored those comments.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Once again, I call shenanigans. You tell us the players will always give the scene a chance, but you decided to skip the desert immediately, without giving it a chance. You also wanted the GM to specifically skip any attention to the hirelings’ backstories or personalities, not give it a chance.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>The fact you are in a city in the middle of the desert should also mean that life is different from cities in other areas. Time pressure? You are assuming the siege will be resolved soon, and not in the city’s favour. Other possibilities exist. Danger from sandstorms, desert nomads (who lay sieges), desert creatures, shortages because supply lines are dicy, every person in the city who finds out that you can teleport out or even create water is going to treat you VERY differently, that sort of thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>The siege does not impact your ability to gamble either, or it need not. We can make the desert or the siege relevant or irrelevant with limited effort.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>As has been repeatedly pointed out, you can also skip the siege by teleporting past it. So, again, how are they different? BTW, Teleport has a limited range - 100 miles per level. More than enough to get past the siege; probably the desert as well since you need to be at least 9[SUP]th[/SUP] level. It has limited capacity – caster plus one person per 3 levels. How many in your party (including mounts, animal companions, etc.)? And it has that NASTY failure possibility, but we’ll just handwave that too, right, just like we handwave the Plane Shift automatic distance issue.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Then neither does the siege. And a competent GM would consider your resources, wouldn’t he? If the siege or desert is important, then bypassing it presumably will not resolve its importance. Unless the purpose of either is for the Wizard to show his stuff by easily passing by the Deadly Desert or the Siege of the City.</p><p> </p><p>JC provides further discussion of how the desert can be relevant and the siege irrelevant. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Really, our goal – what we want to play out – is the blessing from the Pope. The desert, the siege, the city, his secretary - these are just impediments to us playing out the ONE SCENE we are interested in. So handwave them, and put us in our audience with the Pope so he can get on with the blessing.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Further, there seems to be the assumption that there are only two possibilities. Either we are playing out the ONE SCENE you are actually interested in at this time (GrellKill; City) or you are bored to tears/hate the entire game. I find a continuum rather than a binary “perfect” or “completely unacceptable” choice.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>What we seem to be told, IMO, is that Hussar has selected one thing – just one – which is interesting to him. Anything else will bore him to tears. So we have to play out his one scene or he will get shirty. I doubt that’s how he plays (evidence: he has a group he plays with), or the impression he is trying to convey, but it’s the message I find he is sending.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>As an aside, I’m reminded of the GM who plays out all NPC interaction, determining success and failure based solely on his interpretation of the persuasiveness and guile demonstrated by the players, then wonders why the players always dump CHA and never take interaction skills.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6110900, member: 6681948"] Instead, we get to guess which scene any given player may randomly hate. “We want to go to the city.” “You need to travel through the desert to get there.” That seems a petty common sequence, so predicting one of the players will “hate it” so much they will “go nuclear” and need to skip that “one scene in thousands” seems pretty unlikely. Maybe it’s great planning by most of the players because they want to play out long distance travel as a challenge, and an opportunity to interact with the game world. As such, they specifically shy away from Teleport and Overland Flight spells. Then along comes some guy with a centipede summoning schtick who wants to ruin everyone else’s fun by handwaving all the travel scenes because he’s only interested in the destination and hates playing out the journey. We were told they CAN take proactive action to address the siege and they CANNOT take proactive action to address the desert. That “fact” was presented as the reason they want to interact with the siege and do not want to interact with the desert, despite the fact that both are obstacles delaying or impeding their ability to interact with the city. I do not find that logic correct – they can be proactive regarding siege or desert, so the stated reason for favouring one over the other is invalid. Both can be relevant or irrelevant. In a previous post, I set out how the exact same complications you attribute to the siege can be attributed to the desert. These would make a person who could Teleport just as valuable in the absence of the siege. You ignored those comments. Once again, I call shenanigans. You tell us the players will always give the scene a chance, but you decided to skip the desert immediately, without giving it a chance. You also wanted the GM to specifically skip any attention to the hirelings’ backstories or personalities, not give it a chance. The fact you are in a city in the middle of the desert should also mean that life is different from cities in other areas. Time pressure? You are assuming the siege will be resolved soon, and not in the city’s favour. Other possibilities exist. Danger from sandstorms, desert nomads (who lay sieges), desert creatures, shortages because supply lines are dicy, every person in the city who finds out that you can teleport out or even create water is going to treat you VERY differently, that sort of thing. The siege does not impact your ability to gamble either, or it need not. We can make the desert or the siege relevant or irrelevant with limited effort. As has been repeatedly pointed out, you can also skip the siege by teleporting past it. So, again, how are they different? BTW, Teleport has a limited range - 100 miles per level. More than enough to get past the siege; probably the desert as well since you need to be at least 9[SUP]th[/SUP] level. It has limited capacity – caster plus one person per 3 levels. How many in your party (including mounts, animal companions, etc.)? And it has that NASTY failure possibility, but we’ll just handwave that too, right, just like we handwave the Plane Shift automatic distance issue. Then neither does the siege. And a competent GM would consider your resources, wouldn’t he? If the siege or desert is important, then bypassing it presumably will not resolve its importance. Unless the purpose of either is for the Wizard to show his stuff by easily passing by the Deadly Desert or the Siege of the City. JC provides further discussion of how the desert can be relevant and the siege irrelevant. Really, our goal – what we want to play out – is the blessing from the Pope. The desert, the siege, the city, his secretary - these are just impediments to us playing out the ONE SCENE we are interested in. So handwave them, and put us in our audience with the Pope so he can get on with the blessing. Further, there seems to be the assumption that there are only two possibilities. Either we are playing out the ONE SCENE you are actually interested in at this time (GrellKill; City) or you are bored to tears/hate the entire game. I find a continuum rather than a binary “perfect” or “completely unacceptable” choice. What we seem to be told, IMO, is that Hussar has selected one thing – just one – which is interesting to him. Anything else will bore him to tears. So we have to play out his one scene or he will get shirty. I doubt that’s how he plays (evidence: he has a group he plays with), or the impression he is trying to convey, but it’s the message I find he is sending. As an aside, I’m reminded of the GM who plays out all NPC interaction, determining success and failure based solely on his interpretation of the persuasiveness and guile demonstrated by the players, then wonders why the players always dump CHA and never take interaction skills. [/QUOTE]
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