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You're doing what? Surprising the DM
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<blockquote data-quote="Jackinthegreen" data-source="post: 6111137" data-attributes="member: 6678119"><p>1: Keep in mind that players can and do screw up with regards to preparations, among other things. They did not deliberately want to interact with the desert partly because they likely didn't know it existed in the first place, and they couldn't have known it would drop them there until it happened. How much should one "punish" the players for not making preparations for something? Making them slog through the desert when they seem to be more interested in something else isn't something I'd personally do because I'd run the risk of boring them when they're focused on the city. Chances are dealing with the city will engage them far more, so that's where I'm going to set up things that are meant to be engaging. So how might one skip the desert while still letting the players know that they need to prepare for such things if they want to skip it? One way might be telling them "Well, you didn't quite prepare enough for this, but since you definitely don't like the desert I can take the cost of a scroll of X from your total party gold and then you can use it to bypass the desert. Be prepared for stuff like this next time, because I will make you play through it."</p><p></p><p>Would I personally do that? Depends on who I'm running the game for. My main preference is keeping the players having fun, and since I recognize the players are going to be different, I'd do it different depending on the players.</p><p></p><p>2: Again, players don't always have the preparations or abilities needed to bypass something. That doesn't mean it's necessary to force them to play it if there is obviously something they would be more engaged in. What does need to happen is the players need to be more specific about why they're doing something because their actions can be misconstrued. And the DM needs to be sure of what the players really want to do otherwise things can fall apart. Just because you think the player summoning the centipede means the player wants to engage does not change the fact that the player actually didn't want to engage but didn't see any other way of making it "believable."</p><p></p><p>3: The game includes myriad forms of action. Everything potentially could be interesting to someone, but we all know there are things we just don't care about.</p><p></p><p>4: It's an unknown area that isn't the current focus in the way of a better known (but still relatively unknown) area that is the current focus. Some players will want to explore and milk the unknown area for what it's worth, and others will want to make the unknown area be as easy as possible so they can get to their focus. And of course those aren't the only two options since someone could just stick to the easiest path from A to B and get what they could out of that part of the desert, but there's no denying there is diversity in how players would want to interact with it. How the players perceive it is going to shape how it's done.</p><p></p><p>So why shouldn't the desert be framed as an action sequence? Because at least one player, if asked his real opinion, would vehemently object to slogging through it. Is it worth the player being shirty and perhaps even leaving when said player can also bring a lot to other aspects of the game? Is it worth dividing the players in that portion to get to something else that the players can be united in their efforts? To @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=22779" target="_blank">Hussar</a></u></strong></em> and [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], and to me, no. Is it worth letting the almost certainly sucky scene (because of player involvement, or rather lack thereof. Nothing to do with what's actually in it) be handwaved to get to a scene that is going to at the very least feel better to the players in general because of their interest and involvement? Yes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jackinthegreen, post: 6111137, member: 6678119"] 1: Keep in mind that players can and do screw up with regards to preparations, among other things. They did not deliberately want to interact with the desert partly because they likely didn't know it existed in the first place, and they couldn't have known it would drop them there until it happened. How much should one "punish" the players for not making preparations for something? Making them slog through the desert when they seem to be more interested in something else isn't something I'd personally do because I'd run the risk of boring them when they're focused on the city. Chances are dealing with the city will engage them far more, so that's where I'm going to set up things that are meant to be engaging. So how might one skip the desert while still letting the players know that they need to prepare for such things if they want to skip it? One way might be telling them "Well, you didn't quite prepare enough for this, but since you definitely don't like the desert I can take the cost of a scroll of X from your total party gold and then you can use it to bypass the desert. Be prepared for stuff like this next time, because I will make you play through it." Would I personally do that? Depends on who I'm running the game for. My main preference is keeping the players having fun, and since I recognize the players are going to be different, I'd do it different depending on the players. 2: Again, players don't always have the preparations or abilities needed to bypass something. That doesn't mean it's necessary to force them to play it if there is obviously something they would be more engaged in. What does need to happen is the players need to be more specific about why they're doing something because their actions can be misconstrued. And the DM needs to be sure of what the players really want to do otherwise things can fall apart. Just because you think the player summoning the centipede means the player wants to engage does not change the fact that the player actually didn't want to engage but didn't see any other way of making it "believable." 3: The game includes myriad forms of action. Everything potentially could be interesting to someone, but we all know there are things we just don't care about. 4: It's an unknown area that isn't the current focus in the way of a better known (but still relatively unknown) area that is the current focus. Some players will want to explore and milk the unknown area for what it's worth, and others will want to make the unknown area be as easy as possible so they can get to their focus. And of course those aren't the only two options since someone could just stick to the easiest path from A to B and get what they could out of that part of the desert, but there's no denying there is diversity in how players would want to interact with it. How the players perceive it is going to shape how it's done. So why shouldn't the desert be framed as an action sequence? Because at least one player, if asked his real opinion, would vehemently object to slogging through it. Is it worth the player being shirty and perhaps even leaving when said player can also bring a lot to other aspects of the game? Is it worth dividing the players in that portion to get to something else that the players can be united in their efforts? To @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=22779"]Hussar[/URL][/U][/B][/I] and [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], and to me, no. Is it worth letting the almost certainly sucky scene (because of player involvement, or rather lack thereof. Nothing to do with what's actually in it) be handwaved to get to a scene that is going to at the very least feel better to the players in general because of their interest and involvement? Yes. [/QUOTE]
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