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You're doing what? Surprising the DM
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6111735" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>For all we know they wanted that issue waived as well. That way, they don't need to use up spell slots on divination or travel spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup. Typically when there is nothing at stake and "take 10" would be adequate to ride the chosen mount successfully. Which is when the rules explicitly say "no need to roll". Celebrim agre with that 60+ pages ago, and I don't recall anyone disagreeing. Where the disagreement seems to lie is the belief that, even if Take 10 will not succeed, we shoul just handwave that and let them "take 12" or "take 20" or "take 24" or whatever they need to handwave the issue.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Few characters haul siege gear around. As for the spells, why run though a bombardmnet, then? It seems they can just skip the siege, so why not do so?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To repeat, The <em>players'</em> goals are to play a fun RPG which involves pursuit of, and engagement with, their PCs' goals. One such goal is within the city. To get to the city, the PC's must get past the desert and the siege. Both are obstacles to achieving the PC's' goals. Either can be an obstacle to achieving the players' goals, or a means to achieving them. If the players cannot have fun unless and until they are pursuing their PC's goals in the city, then neither the desert crossing no the siege engages with the players' goals either, because they are not within the city, despite being about getting to, and into, the city.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Interest" and Relevant" being used as synonyms is pretty much completely wrong. Let us assume the PC's must get from the Inn to the Church to further their goals. The city is a maze of winding streets, so the GM narrates eight hours of players trying to navigate the streets. Relevant? Sure - we're pursuing our goals. Interesting? I suspect not. Perhaps the players and GM get side tracked into xtensive role playing with fellow travellers at the Inn. Nothing related to their goals comes up, but everyone had a terrific time. Interesting? Sure seems that way. Relevant? Not so much.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What I find entertaining about the discussion is that I've gamed many years with a player far more likely to mean "My character delusionally believes he is the rightful King of all the Land, and no amount of reality will shake that ludicrous delusion" than "No, really, my character really IS the rightful heir to the throne".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bingo. After a period interacting with recruits (or slogging through the desert) and having nothing interesting come of it, I can see the request to move this stale scene along. Demanding it be skipped fom the outset because it cannot possibly be relevant or interesting seems much less reasonable. Now, in fairness, Hussar has commented on the contrived placement of such important personages, and I would expect the same response here. But really, a lot of source material events are pretty contrived. Just the fact that the PC's, and no one else, answer the call for adventurers that brings the party together seems pretty contrived.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6111735, member: 6681948"] For all we know they wanted that issue waived as well. That way, they don't need to use up spell slots on divination or travel spells. Yup. Typically when there is nothing at stake and "take 10" would be adequate to ride the chosen mount successfully. Which is when the rules explicitly say "no need to roll". Celebrim agre with that 60+ pages ago, and I don't recall anyone disagreeing. Where the disagreement seems to lie is the belief that, even if Take 10 will not succeed, we shoul just handwave that and let them "take 12" or "take 20" or "take 24" or whatever they need to handwave the issue. Few characters haul siege gear around. As for the spells, why run though a bombardmnet, then? It seems they can just skip the siege, so why not do so? To repeat, The [I]players'[/I] goals are to play a fun RPG which involves pursuit of, and engagement with, their PCs' goals. One such goal is within the city. To get to the city, the PC's must get past the desert and the siege. Both are obstacles to achieving the PC's' goals. Either can be an obstacle to achieving the players' goals, or a means to achieving them. If the players cannot have fun unless and until they are pursuing their PC's goals in the city, then neither the desert crossing no the siege engages with the players' goals either, because they are not within the city, despite being about getting to, and into, the city. "Interest" and Relevant" being used as synonyms is pretty much completely wrong. Let us assume the PC's must get from the Inn to the Church to further their goals. The city is a maze of winding streets, so the GM narrates eight hours of players trying to navigate the streets. Relevant? Sure - we're pursuing our goals. Interesting? I suspect not. Perhaps the players and GM get side tracked into xtensive role playing with fellow travellers at the Inn. Nothing related to their goals comes up, but everyone had a terrific time. Interesting? Sure seems that way. Relevant? Not so much. What I find entertaining about the discussion is that I've gamed many years with a player far more likely to mean "My character delusionally believes he is the rightful King of all the Land, and no amount of reality will shake that ludicrous delusion" than "No, really, my character really IS the rightful heir to the throne". Bingo. After a period interacting with recruits (or slogging through the desert) and having nothing interesting come of it, I can see the request to move this stale scene along. Demanding it be skipped fom the outset because it cannot possibly be relevant or interesting seems much less reasonable. Now, in fairness, Hussar has commented on the contrived placement of such important personages, and I would expect the same response here. But really, a lot of source material events are pretty contrived. Just the fact that the PC's, and no one else, answer the call for adventurers that brings the party together seems pretty contrived. [/QUOTE]
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