Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6120621" data-attributes="member: 6681948"> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"></li> </ul>I fin this a very narrow vision.  Who placed whatever the PC's want, that "eyes on the prize" goal, in a city in the first place, then wrapped that city in a desert, then ribboned it up with a siege?  Until these parameters were set, there was nothing for the PC's to do.  I see a more macro PC Agency potential here - who set the goal?  In an AP, the goal was likely also set by the GM.  Maybe it was set by having the PC's hired to do a job.  Perhaps it was set  by dangling a plot hook until the players took the bait ("it is rumoured there is powerful magic buied somewhere in the lowest levels of the ruins of the ancient Castle").  Or maybe it was set by mandating a common PC motivation or agenda to start matters of and we went from there ("PC's should be altruistic and have reason to fight the goblin hordes").  It could have been set by the PC's.  They could have been placed in the rowboat (a great analogy, Celebrim) and made all the decisions of what they want to do and how they will go about it.  But guess what?  They need what the GM puts in their path to even do that.  In fact, in that rowboat world, the GM has still set the first goal - learn enough about the setting to be able to take some meaningful action.Sure.  They highlight different stages in the process.  One features the PC's determining the resources that are available to them, what they can do to achieve their goals, or even what those goals could be - like the game(s) where the PC's determined what long term objective they wanted to meet, that the Whatever would advance them towards their goal, and that the Whatever is in the city in the desert.  The other features the PC's acting on those resources they have mined from the setting.  Few gaming sessions are 100% one or the other.The siege provides the PC's something new.  It wasn't hard to find - there it was.  But they still need to set their objectives and implement them.  We want to use the siege to our own ends?  How do we achieve that?  If we want the leaders to take some action, we need to get the opportunity to interact with them, determine their goals and figure out how we can use their goals to further ours.  But we need to determine their goals if we are to leverage the siege.  Do they want to lay waste to the city and slaughter its leaders?  That's a nice matchup for our goal to steal away with an ancient artifact hidden within the city.  If our goal is to secure the blessing of the High Priest, that doesn't fit so well with "slaughter the high priest who is one of the leaders".  Mabe we can leverage the rescue of the High Priest towards our blessing, or bargain with the besieging force that our aid comes at the price of the High Priest being turned over to us, not slaughtered.  Which approach works likely depends on the High Priest's personality as well.  If our goal is to secure the principality this city belongs to as our staunch ally, crushing their outost into rubble isn't a great fit.And here again, we are handicapped by not knowing the goal - the bigger picture - in assessing the siege.If the besieging force is hell bent to reduce the city to rubble an kill all who stand in their way, there may  not even be room for us to interact with the siege.  "We scale the walls under cover of bombardment" reduces the siege to a simple "cool image" not really at all different from "we ride our centipede, fremen style, thrugh the desert to the city".I see - you inroduced something which merits a scathing rebuke to supot your point.  I can't imagine why any of us have difficulty grasping your points when they are presented in such a fashion.OK.  And you can come up with these in two or thee minutes, I assume, so the game can readily proceed without interruption - Story Now, so nothing else in between.  Some GM's can.  Some require some prep time.  I note ou on't know what they are of the cuff to provide them in our post.  I also believe they would be extrapolated from what you (maybe also the layers, maybe not) already know about the lich - otherwise they are unlikely to speak to the place of the lich in the fiction of the game.  And, ultimately, I suggest there is no guarantee that the players immediately perceive these links, and don't perceive the next encounter as a roablock.  Especially if they are alreay inclined to do so.Esxactly.  The layers can make reasonable educated gueses as to what will, or won't, fly.I'm guessing, however, that it would not be "Well, maybe getting back to working with Vecna would be fun, you know, for old time's sake.  Why I remember when....  Good times, good times..." leading to the Vecna/Kas 'Hells Freeze Over' Reunion Tour.  I'm also guessing that your players woul know enough not to suggest such an alliance - their knowledge of Kas assists them in assessing how best to leverage the NPC.  Random Roll Mad Mage?  Not so much.Fair enough - Kas' established personality provides no basis for me to wiegh the relative importance of getting the niece versus finding the grandmother, or the opportnit to secure an alliance with the PC's.  Now, if the niece had the tols and the will to return Vecna to full power, or could be used to destroy him orever, I would expect Kas to be less accommodating.  And, as a PC, I would know his history and have reason to suspect any deal that seems just a bit too good may not be honoured.  Whereas, if this were another NPC with a "word is his  bond" reputation, that shoul lead me to more trust in his oath - just as Kas is playing upon what he knows worked on the PC's once.</blockquote>

Verification