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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Master of the Game" data-source="post: 4492253" data-attributes="member: 9220">sett, I totally take your concerns seriously because that's how we get better.  No one see the same from the inside looking out as the outside looking in.  I think the very fact that these conversations were going on shows that the personnel of the ENnies take complaints very seriously.  Otherwise there would have been no discussion of allowing fees instead of CDs at all.  From our perspective the CDs work very well indeed.You certainly have a point here, but I feel like the emails themselves give enough evidence that they actually were trying to figure out how to deal with it.  I know it seems like it was long, but it's important to remember two things.  First, there were new judges that were still trying to acclimatize and learn the process, and second, it was just after GenCon.  I don't know if anyone else has post-GenCon burnout the way I have, but I never feel like jumping right on anything after I get back, and I never had to spend the month leading up to it running around at the last minute trying to prepare a huge event like the ENnies.  It wouldn't surprise me if everyone needed a break and some time to think.If the people at the ENnies are mostly friends it's likely from a mutual respect from working with one another for years and going through some pretty tough trials.  You don't have any friends from work that you'd have dinner with after a few years working side by side and talking every day?I could see why you worry, but I think the fact that the judge pool in the past few years has been very fluid is plenty of proof that no one is pushing an agenda or anything.  When it comes to the awards themselves no one is more powerful than the judges, and year after year there's always some old veteran that gets phased out and some new person with new ideas that gets phased in.  That's how I got in, that's how Zach got in, and I'd venture we're not the only ones.  Who would have expected Teflon Billy to get voted out after years as the heart of the judging staff?Other than that I don't know what other answer to give you.  The "kiddy table" comment was obviously not meant in a derogatory way as has been explained over and over again, and I feel like, if you're going to keep holding on to that there is nothing anyone is going to say that will change your mind on that issue.  That doesn't invalidate your other points, but I really feel like it's useless to keep going over that one again and again.I hope that the links issue has been already discussed enough.  Certainly everyone has burned a CD that didn't turn out right at some point?  Should a product be invalidated because one judge got stuck with a technical glitch?  I don't know anything about it, it was after my time, but in case anyone wants to vote against me for saying so in the future, I think it was a good idea and within the spirit of the rules.  Please let that help to serve as a guide for whether or not I get your vote when I run again next year.If products aren't getting a full review however, I think that is pretty unacceptable, but that's a judge problem, not an ENie problem.  We get a couple hundred products to review each year.  If you can't do it, don't run.Your passionate and embedded in you position, and there's nothing wrong with discussing it.  But maybe we should all move on from saying the same thing over and over again in a half-dozen threads.  Myself included.  I think it's making us all cranky <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think that they really have honestly.  This isn't exactly the first thread around here about things that the ENnies have done wrong, and I think history has shown us that the concerns are listened to and addressed.People complained my year about what happened with Fear the Boot.  The next year Confessions of a Part Time Sorceress (I apologize if I'm wrong, but I'm not familiar and working from second-hand information here) said something presumably less controversial, but in the same vein.  They were handled more lightly by a whole new panel of judges hot on the heels of the earlier controversy, and people became upset.  However it does show that they listened, and it does show that they were trying, and they did so publicly.Last year people complained about submitting products on CD, so this year they were discussing other options.  Now everyone is upset that a fee was discussed, but once again it shows that they were listening and trying to find a fix.  Was it public yet?  No.  It was never finalized, but clearly it would have been eventually, or else no one would know to pay the fee.I don't know.  I can't claim to be uninvolved, but I can say that Zach's experience was not my experience, and I'd guess it wasn't his last year either, since he chose to run again.  Though I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for him.Thank you.  You know, I know people are going to get on your case because they disagree with you.  I do too.  But I do apreciate that you really sem to be doing what you think is right, and not just trying to cause trouble, and I find that admirable.I still think you're wrong though. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Let me ask you a question.  You seem to take it very seriously that members of the ENnies discuss important topics with their friends because it is "clique-ish" or what have you.  Especially the fact that Denise and fusangite talked about Zach's public resignation over dinner.What exactly are your thoughts then on the fact that Zach shared these emails with several people before making them public?  At least two people I know of on therpgsite claim Zach sent the emails to a "group" of people before posting them.  Pundit also says he had discussed these problem and offer advice for quite some time.Is that more acceptable, and why?I promise I'm not trying to start an argument.  I honestly want to know where you stand on the issue, and why one behavior may be (though I'm not saying it is) more clique-ish in your mind than the other.</blockquote>

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