Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Zero to Hero!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="marelion" data-source="post: 5630477" data-attributes="member: 6679828"><p>I think Skyscraper does have a point when arguing about <em>relative</em> and <em>absolute</em> power. That is what carries the day for the DM in 4E.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, PCs are quite popwerful al level 1, but then again, so are their opponents. Those skinny, little goblins with their shortbows and short swords are frightnening to the farmer in the west of Cormyr because they can kill him with one strike (asuming that by the standards of 4E that farmer is a minion). Thus, the party of beginning adventurers is really compelled to try and engage the goblins, knowing that they are the only ones around who will not fall prey to a warband of 6-7 goblins. And the group will still feel heroic after beating the goblins even if it was easier than the encounter would have neen in previous editions. Noting that the encounter would have been more difficult in 3E is unfair meta-criticism in my opinion. 4E and 3E are <em>entirely independent</em> systems. </p><p></p><p>In 4E<em> both the characters and their players</em> get the feeling that they are responsible for the welfare of the villagers, whereas in previous editions you would have to apply to the characters` ideals or their greed and hope that the players enjoy the show your NPCs pull off in order to get the party involved in their mess. The villagers could as simply have massed up as the proverbial angry mob armed with torches and clubs and driven the goblins out all by themselves instead of waiting for a group of so called `heroes`.</p><p></p><p>In 4E a charsmatic character might still try to convince the villagers to pick up their arms and fight for themselves but he will very soon realize just how weak and clumsy they are in comparison to him. If he has any common sense he will disassembly his little militia as quickly as he had gathered it and face the goblins with the rest of the party, knowing that those poor villagers would not have stood the ghost of a chance in any fight that is more serious than a little brawl in the local pub.</p><p></p><p>IMO, 4E helps improve the heroes self-confidence and closes the gap between players` ambitions and their image of their characters` being heroes and their characters` unabilty to perform as such at the lower levels. </p><p></p><p>To me, D&D was always about <strong>heroic</strong> fantasy. If you were only like Joe Doe, then why would you be chosen for the most fatal tasks? It often felt far fetched in campaigns in previous editions I ran why it was me as the character and not the girl from next door to rise to global fame, given that she was just as capable as a wizard´s apprentice as my character was by the time that he left.</p><p></p><p>A campaign about heroes arising as such has its very own charm, but to me 4E is not a system that encourages this style of gameplay. 4E D&D simply is not the number 1 system for simulatory gameplay with its simplified mechanics.<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/cry.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":.-(" title="Cry :.-(" data-shortname=":.-(" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="marelion, post: 5630477, member: 6679828"] I think Skyscraper does have a point when arguing about [I]relative[/I] and [I]absolute[/I] power. That is what carries the day for the DM in 4E. Yes, PCs are quite popwerful al level 1, but then again, so are their opponents. Those skinny, little goblins with their shortbows and short swords are frightnening to the farmer in the west of Cormyr because they can kill him with one strike (asuming that by the standards of 4E that farmer is a minion). Thus, the party of beginning adventurers is really compelled to try and engage the goblins, knowing that they are the only ones around who will not fall prey to a warband of 6-7 goblins. And the group will still feel heroic after beating the goblins even if it was easier than the encounter would have neen in previous editions. Noting that the encounter would have been more difficult in 3E is unfair meta-criticism in my opinion. 4E and 3E are [I]entirely independent[/I] systems. In 4E[I] both the characters and their players[/I] get the feeling that they are responsible for the welfare of the villagers, whereas in previous editions you would have to apply to the characters` ideals or their greed and hope that the players enjoy the show your NPCs pull off in order to get the party involved in their mess. The villagers could as simply have massed up as the proverbial angry mob armed with torches and clubs and driven the goblins out all by themselves instead of waiting for a group of so called `heroes`. In 4E a charsmatic character might still try to convince the villagers to pick up their arms and fight for themselves but he will very soon realize just how weak and clumsy they are in comparison to him. If he has any common sense he will disassembly his little militia as quickly as he had gathered it and face the goblins with the rest of the party, knowing that those poor villagers would not have stood the ghost of a chance in any fight that is more serious than a little brawl in the local pub. IMO, 4E helps improve the heroes self-confidence and closes the gap between players` ambitions and their image of their characters` being heroes and their characters` unabilty to perform as such at the lower levels. To me, D&D was always about [B]heroic[/B] fantasy. If you were only like Joe Doe, then why would you be chosen for the most fatal tasks? It often felt far fetched in campaigns in previous editions I ran why it was me as the character and not the girl from next door to rise to global fame, given that she was just as capable as a wizard´s apprentice as my character was by the time that he left. A campaign about heroes arising as such has its very own charm, but to me 4E is not a system that encourages this style of gameplay. 4E D&D simply is not the number 1 system for simulatory gameplay with its simplified mechanics.:.-( [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Zero to Hero!
Top