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<blockquote data-quote="JLXC" data-source="post: 201019" data-attributes="member: 2663">You kill your own argument with the above comments.Stupid Enough to stand close to eachother?&nbsp; This comment always makes me laugh.&nbsp; I guess none of your adventures ever take place in a limited area?&nbsp; Your PC's are always 30 to 50 ft apart huh?Even with 1 speed it only takes 5 rounds to get out!&nbsp; Wow what a great argument!&nbsp; A No Save, No SR spell that stops you flat for 5 rounds!&nbsp; Then they can cast it on you again!&nbsp; You're right... that's not tough for 4th freakin level.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes&nbsp; &nbsp; :rolleyes:"&nbsp; data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />Wall of Force is a 5th level spell and is WEAKER than this spell.&nbsp; You cannot fireball and use magic on characters on the other side of a Wall of Force.&nbsp; Thanks for supporting my argument.&quot; I think you are just attempting to justify your desire to rule out a perfectly fine spell because you can't deal with it when your players use it.&quot;This is insulting and dumb all at the same time.&nbsp; None of my players use it at all, as the spell is banned.&nbsp; None of them has even asked because they read it and laughed along with me.&nbsp; Some of us can look at a spell OBJECTIVELY, not just for it's Min/Max value.&nbsp; In any limited space enviroment, which is many adventures, this spell is at least 6th level of effect.&nbsp; Yeah that's just the DM crying.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes&nbsp; &nbsp; :rolleyes:"&nbsp; data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />&nbsp; No Save, No SR, is HUGE.&nbsp; As a DM I like to think about things like... what if I used this against the players.&nbsp; Would this be an ok 4th level level spell to use on them.&nbsp; Invariably I would say no.&nbsp; So I actually was thinking of my PLAYERS, and not my DMing.&nbsp; Gee I'm so Evil.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes&nbsp; &nbsp; :rolleyes:"&nbsp; data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />I'm glad it passed your balance test.&nbsp; It sure don't pass mine, or apparently other peoples as well.&nbsp; Not at 4th level, nope.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JLXC, post: 201019, member: 2663"] You kill your own argument with the above comments. Stupid Enough to stand close to eachother? This comment always makes me laugh. I guess none of your adventures ever take place in a limited area? Your PC's are always 30 to 50 ft apart huh? Even with 1 speed it only takes 5 rounds to get out! Wow what a great argument! A No Save, No SR spell that stops you flat for 5 rounds! Then they can cast it on you again! You're right... that's not tough for 4th freakin level. :rolleyes: Wall of Force is a 5th level spell and is WEAKER than this spell. You cannot fireball and use magic on characters on the other side of a Wall of Force. Thanks for supporting my argument. " I think you are just attempting to justify your desire to rule out a perfectly fine spell because you can't deal with it when your players use it." This is insulting and dumb all at the same time. None of my players use it at all, as the spell is banned. None of them has even asked because they read it and laughed along with me. Some of us can look at a spell OBJECTIVELY, not just for it's Min/Max value. In any limited space enviroment, which is many adventures, this spell is at least 6th level of effect. Yeah that's just the DM crying. :rolleyes: No Save, No SR, is HUGE. As a DM I like to think about things like... what if I used this against the players. Would this be an ok 4th level level spell to use on them. Invariably I would say no. So I actually was thinking of my PLAYERS, and not my DMing. Gee I'm so Evil. :rolleyes: I'm glad it passed your balance test. It sure don't pass mine, or apparently other peoples as well. Not at 4th level, nope. [/QUOTE]

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