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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 4737266" data-attributes="member: 82106">The problem is the rules are incomplete.There are 3 rules sections which deal with the effects of terrain (aside from movement). Line of Effect - This one is perfectly clear in how it works. Obviously it isn't relevant in the case of a cloud of fog and for all other cases it has exact known rules.Line of Sight - Again, this one is perfectly clear. In the case of the fog both characters have LOE. Since both characters have an unblocked line to each corner of the other's square there is no cover. Concealment - There are two parts to the concealment rules. First you have to consider intervening squares. In this particular case none of the intervening squares effects concealment. Second you have to consider the squares the creatures occupy. Here is where the problem lies. The rules on page 280 specify the penalties for a character attacking someone who is IN the square of concealment, so we know that the creature outside the fog attacks anything inside with a -5. There is NO rule for how obscured squares affect the creature which is IN them when attacking things outside. The general reading would thus be that there is no effect. This works fine for the case of darkness, which is the only totally obscuring terrain type listed. You can attack from darkness with no penalties, and intervening darkness has no effect either. The problem comes up because a fog cloud isn't darkness, it actually affects vision THROUGH it, not just into it, which is not covered by the rule on PHB 280. It would be covered by normal LOS rules if the attack passed through a whole square of fog. Thus my determination would be there IS no rule governing attacking out of a square of fog. None at all. One answer then is there is no penalty since none is specified. I would rule that if this was ordinary obscuring terrain that would be fine (IE light fog or a bush that the creature is inside). With totally obscuring LOS blocking terrain DMs obviously don't think that rule is very good, so give whatever penalty you like. -5 is reasonable on the theory that both creatures are equally hampered. -2 could also be argued on a theory that it is still easier to see out than in and a creature can be considered to be peering out of the corner of its square more or less. Personally in this one case I'd give a -5 for attacking out, but like I say, it is a purely DM arbitrated situation with no official rule.</blockquote>

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