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Zweihander Revised Core Rulebook- a read-through
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<blockquote data-quote="Some Dude" data-source="post: 7833446" data-attributes="member: 6980080"><p><strong>CHAPTER 9: HAZARDS & HEALING</strong></p><p></p><p>[Note: after the pleasant, sensible structure of Chapter 8, Chapter 9 gets right back up to its old tricks, with a jumbled presentation that is a bit aggravating and difficult to follow. Not impossible, but definitely not easy. I like this game, I really do. But, man, oh man. I'm not trying to rip on the author here. In his defense, I might not be that bright. Plus, I've heard him own his lack of writing experience in interviews. But, dude.]</p><p></p><p>Zweihander's 9th Chapter goes into further detail about various ways that your Zweihander character can get hurt, get ill, or die. Outside of Combat, I mean. Fires, natural disasters, diseases of all kinds, stress, even mental or physical fatigue are things that can weaken and destroy your adventurer. And all of that is discussed here, as well as what may (or in some cases, may not) be done to recover from such conditions.</p><p></p><p>Firstly, it is noted that your Character may suffer Damage from hazards such as those mentioned above. In many of those cases, such Damage may not be Dodged or Parried. There is a re-stating of the Damage Condition Track and how it works.</p><p></p><p>In Chapter 3: Character Creation, we calculated Guhm's Peril Threshold by adding 3 to his Willpower Bonus, then extrapolating that number in a manner identical to the Damage Condition Track (e.g., +6,/+12/+18) to map out his Peril Condition Track. So, a Character who suffers in excess of their Base Peril Threshold, but less than their Base Peril Threshold +6, would move one Step Down the Peril Condition Track. Suffering Peril in excess of your Peril Threshold +6, but less than your Peril Threshold +12 would move you two Steps Down, and so on.</p><p></p><p>In addition to physical Damage or Injury, certain occurrences may also impart Peril.</p><p></p><p>A Character's Peril Condition Track has the same number of steps as the Damage Condition Track. Its function is differently, however. Whereas the Damage Condition Track lets us know how wounded our Character may be, their Peril Condition Track lets us know how hungry, tired, frightened or frazzled they are.</p><p></p><p>While Peril will not directly kill a Character, Characters who move far enough down the Peril Condition Track will start to ignore Skill Ranks, that is to say, the Bonuses inferred by them:</p><p></p><p>-When you have moved 2 steps down the Track, you ignore 1 Skill Level. So, if you had 2 Skill Ranks in Intimidate, for example, you would effectively only have one (so you'd only add 10% to Intimidate Tests, instead of your usual 20%).</p><p></p><p>-When you have moved 3 steps Down the Track, you ignore 2 Skill Ranks.</p><p></p><p>-When you have moved 4 steps Down the Track, you ignore 3 Skill Ranks.</p><p></p><p>-When you have moved 5 steps Down the Track, you are Incapacitated! Unable to do anything but curl into a ball and suck your thumb, until such time as you have moved UP the Peril Condition Track, which is achieved either through rest in a safe place ,or, temporarily, the ingestion of certain drugs. Characters who become Incapacitated! cannot succeed at any Skill Tests, and immediately suffer 6 Corruption (see Chapter 3: Character Creation)! Note: Characters who must rest, but are forced to do so in an unsafe place, will not fully recover from all of their Peril until they are able to recover in safety for a while.</p><p></p><p>Peril can be suffered as the result of many things, from starvation to sleep deprivation to disease. Peril may be either Physical or Mental, but as far as I can tell, this only matters when you are "getting" the Peril. Certain Drugs or Traits may allow you to ignore Peril of one type or another. But once it goes on your Peril Condition Track, it's all the same. When suffering Peril, however, it's always in some combination of d10 rolls plus a number equal to the number of d10s rolled, e.g., 1d10+1, 2d10+2, etc.</p><p></p><p>This Chapter also explains how to overcome and heal Damage and Injuries, both in the short and long terms. The importance of this should be obvious, as Damage and/or injuries can kill your Character, or may leave them with permanent or disfiguring injuries.</p><p></p><p>Unlike Peril, Damage Injuries can't be "slept off". Both must be treated. Magickal healing is rare in Zweihander, which aims more toward the dark, painful and unsanitary conditions of the middle ages than the gleaming spires of Tolkien's Middle-Earth.</p><p></p><p>Characters can Bind their Wounds in order to move up the Damage Condition Track. This may be done by performing a Successful Heal Test, the Difficulty Rating of which will be determined by the Character's current position on the Damage Condition Track. This requires the possession and subsequent expenditure of a bandage each time. Characters may only move one step Up the Track every 24 hours, unless the Heal Test is a Critical Success, in which case, they will move 2 Steps Up. Should the Healing Test fail, the Character will not be able to be thus treated again until a Successful Heal Test is made. A Critical Failure indicates that the Character's Recovery has been complicated by an Infection. Also, if a Character has suffered a Grievous Injury, their wounds may not be bound until said Injury is treated. Which brings me to my next point:</p><p></p><p>The Treatment of Injuries that may be sustained during Combat or by other means is separate and distinct from the Treatment of Damage, as the two are separate but related concepts in Zweihander. While Wounds, i.e., steps on your Damage Condition Track, can be treated away bit by bit, day by day, Injuries require time and attention of a different sort.</p><p></p><p>Any Injury that is Moderate or Lower on the Track will earn you some Corruption. Moderate= 3 Corruption, Serious =6, and Grievous =9.</p><p></p><p>Injuries can be Recuperated from slowly, at a rate determined by rolling a number of d10s according to the severity of the Injuries in question. This will take anywhere from a couple of days to a month, and there may still be permanent Damage! In any event, Moderate and Serious Injuries must be Successfully Treated in order for Recuperation to begin. Failure means a delay in Recuperation until Successful Treatment is achieved. Critical Successes will reduce the recovery time, and, as above, Critical Failure means Infection. Infection will begin the slow loss of a Character's vitality (in the form of permanent Attribute loss), but there is also a (characteristically risky) treatment for Infection- Bloodletting.</p><p></p><p>The method to stop bleeding, a hazard mentioned in the previous Chapter, is given.</p><p></p><p>If you have multiple Injuries, each is given its own Recuperation time, to run concurrently.</p><p></p><p>Greivous Injuries will require surgery before any Recuperation can begin. This must be done within a number of days no greater than your Brawn Bonus, or the effects of the Injur(ies)y will be permanent!</p><p></p><p>Binding of Wounds, Treatment of Injuries, Surgeries... all require a Successful Heal test. If you have multiple Injuries, these procedures will have a higher Difficulty Rating.</p><p></p><p>Laudanum may be used to move yourself one Step Up the Damage Condition Track, but you gain Corruption by doing so. Also, Laudanum will be injurious to you if you take too much.</p><p></p><p>Now that I've covered the "meat and potatoes" of Damage and Peril, as well as how to treat these conditions, it's time to delve into the rest of the Chapter. This chapter is another example of the "more is more" ethos of Zweihander, an in this way, it really works for me. Chapter 9 details, in an efficient yet sufficiently detailed way, all of the various ways in which Zweihander Characters can suffer & die. Disease, Falling, Frostbite/Heatstroke, Suffocation, Starvation, being set on fire, Drugs and Poisons (sometimes a substance is both), the list is fairly exhaustive. No one can deny the completeness of this book in terms of rules. The bases are covered, as far as bad naughty word that can happen to your Character during the course of an adventure or campaign.</p><p></p><p>-Disease is covered, first with a description of conditions in the world Zweihander seeks to emulate. A filthy world teeming with unsanitary conditions, parasites, diseased creatures and even supernatural afflictions.The various ways these can be spread are listed (Ingestion, Miasma, Touch, Wounding). Then, eight diseases are listed, according to the following format:</p><p></p><p>-Resist: When exposed to disease, your Character must make a Successful Toughness Test to avoid being infected. The Difficulty Rating for each disease is listed in its description. Critical Failure gets you a few points of Corruption, as well as the disease.</p><p></p><p>-Duration: How long you will be afflicted. Some illnesses will stay with you until you get treatment. Some will run their course and trouble you no further.</p><p></p><p>-Effect: exactly what it sounds like. What the disease does, and when it does it, in game terms.</p><p></p><p>-Treatment: The worldly methods by which you may be cured (Magickal remedies are covered in the next Chapter).</p><p></p><p>There are eight distinct diseases listed, each having a different effect, duration, and cure. This is the Zweihander approach in a nutshell, and it works very well for me. Rather than an encyclopedic and highly granular list of ailments, many of which may differ but slightly in a mechanical sense, a different and better system is used. Diseases are defined by four categories, and each differs enough that every disease is distinct. It is relatively small quantities, which are then mixed and matched to yield a great variety of choices/outcomes/whatever. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's the same approach that has been used with Weapons, Professions and everything else I have seen in these pages so far. And it works.</p><p></p><p>Next, there is a section about Disorders and how to treat them. Disorders, if you'll remember, are gained by earning Chaos Ranks, through the accumulation of Corruption. Disorders are the consequence of bad behavior, even if it was behavior that was necessary for your survival. And they are nasty. There are several kinds of Disorders, and when you become so afflicted, your GM will decide which kind you suffer from. It can be anything, from an unyielding obsession for drink, to a darker compulsion, even some unnatural physical mutation! But, there are treatments, as detailed here. Dangerous Treatments, that may leave you dead or somehow diminished. Good Luck! Like the rest of this Chapter, the Treatment, and the circumstances for Failure of said Treatment, are clearly spelled out.</p><p></p><p>Then comes all of the environmental hazards mentioned above. While no game could ever hope to cover every situation, a really good job has been done here. Pretty much any situation you might find your character in should be covered here. Falling (eiter into a hard surface or into water), Fire (three different classifications!), weather, etc. Not stuff that's gonna happen every session, but a nice thing to have in your toolbox, just the same.</p><p></p><p>The next section covers Poisons, which have been divided into 3 types: Deliriants, Toxins and Venoms.</p><p></p><p>Deliriants are basically drugs that bestow temporary benefits, from the temporary increase of a Primary Attribute, to the temporary increase in one's ability to withstand Peril or Damage. But be warned, each dose will gain you Corruption. Likewise, one or more of your Attributes are likely to fail you while you are under the effect of Deliriants. That is to say, Failures will become Critical Failures while you are so impaired, and for every dose you take, more Attributes will be affected. Drugs are bad, mkay?</p><p></p><p>Toxins are mixtures that can cause Peril or limit the actions of any creature unfortunate enough to be dosed with one. These are likely to be used offensively. As with diseases, a Toughness Test is required to escape the effects. Critical Failure means that at the end of the Toxin's effect, the victim is Slain! Some Toxins work against animals, some against PC Ancestries, and some against the monsters and beasties that pose such grave danger to Characters.</p><p></p><p>Venom is divided into three very broad types: Scorpion (attacks sight), Snake (Incapacitated! and will die if not treated), and Spider (Paralyzes, and may instantly kill). These are the most deadly types of Poisons in the game. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!</p><p></p><p>Chapter 9 closes with a list of items, mixtures and materials which may be made by Characters possessing the proper Skills and Trappings. These include anything from the Bandages so necessary to much of this game's healing, to Bottle Bombs (a sort of Molotov cosktail), to Gunpowder, to Antivenoms, Tinctures, and even the Poisons we've just finished reading about earlier in this Chapter. Each can be prepared in quantitties of one to three uses. More uses = higher Difficulty Rating, and these vary from one item to the next. In addition, the time and materials needed to craft each item are listed, as well as the consequences of Failure (in Zweihander, there are always consequences). These entries may seem a little "same-ey" to some, but crafting 1-3 "uses" of something works just fine for me. The minutiae of crafting isn't really my thing, and the 3 use limit keeps Players from having an endless supply of stuff, which i suspect has as much to do with game balance as anything else.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 9 was jam-packed full of practical, usable stuff. The presentation was less than ideal, in my opinion, but at the end of the day, it's an incredible resource for your Zweihander game, and one that will keep you from having to adjudicate too much on the fly. Some stuff, like Deliriants are standard issue for many starting Archetypes, so it's good to have their effects at your fingertips. And despite the "lack of an implied setting", these rules help to flesh out the "Grim & Perilous" Zweihander milieu. In short, I give Chapter 9 a BIG thumbs up, venereal warts and all!</p><p></p><p>Well, we're 273 pages in (out of 669). There are 4 more Chapters left, and, as you may have guessed, they get longer from here on out. Prior to this, the longest Chapter was Chapter 4: Professions, at just over a hundred pages. Most have been much shorter. All but one of the last four Chapters will be at least as long. I think I just went down a couple of Steps on My Peril Condition Track!</p><p></p><p>Seriously, though, I'm looking forward to this. What I have read so far has been great, and I can't wait to see how the Chapter on Magick and the Bestiary flesh out this game's "not-setting" even further. I'll return as soon as I can, with an in-depth look at Magick, in the form of...</p><p></p><p><strong>CHAPTER 10: GRIMOIRE</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Some Dude, post: 7833446, member: 6980080"] [b]CHAPTER 9: HAZARDS & HEALING[/b] [Note: after the pleasant, sensible structure of Chapter 8, Chapter 9 gets right back up to its old tricks, with a jumbled presentation that is a bit aggravating and difficult to follow. Not impossible, but definitely not easy. I like this game, I really do. But, man, oh man. I'm not trying to rip on the author here. In his defense, I might not be that bright. Plus, I've heard him own his lack of writing experience in interviews. But, dude.] Zweihander's 9th Chapter goes into further detail about various ways that your Zweihander character can get hurt, get ill, or die. Outside of Combat, I mean. Fires, natural disasters, diseases of all kinds, stress, even mental or physical fatigue are things that can weaken and destroy your adventurer. And all of that is discussed here, as well as what may (or in some cases, may not) be done to recover from such conditions. Firstly, it is noted that your Character may suffer Damage from hazards such as those mentioned above. In many of those cases, such Damage may not be Dodged or Parried. There is a re-stating of the Damage Condition Track and how it works. In Chapter 3: Character Creation, we calculated Guhm's Peril Threshold by adding 3 to his Willpower Bonus, then extrapolating that number in a manner identical to the Damage Condition Track (e.g., +6,/+12/+18) to map out his Peril Condition Track. So, a Character who suffers in excess of their Base Peril Threshold, but less than their Base Peril Threshold +6, would move one Step Down the Peril Condition Track. Suffering Peril in excess of your Peril Threshold +6, but less than your Peril Threshold +12 would move you two Steps Down, and so on. In addition to physical Damage or Injury, certain occurrences may also impart Peril. A Character's Peril Condition Track has the same number of steps as the Damage Condition Track. Its function is differently, however. Whereas the Damage Condition Track lets us know how wounded our Character may be, their Peril Condition Track lets us know how hungry, tired, frightened or frazzled they are. While Peril will not directly kill a Character, Characters who move far enough down the Peril Condition Track will start to ignore Skill Ranks, that is to say, the Bonuses inferred by them: -When you have moved 2 steps down the Track, you ignore 1 Skill Level. So, if you had 2 Skill Ranks in Intimidate, for example, you would effectively only have one (so you'd only add 10% to Intimidate Tests, instead of your usual 20%). -When you have moved 3 steps Down the Track, you ignore 2 Skill Ranks. -When you have moved 4 steps Down the Track, you ignore 3 Skill Ranks. -When you have moved 5 steps Down the Track, you are Incapacitated! Unable to do anything but curl into a ball and suck your thumb, until such time as you have moved UP the Peril Condition Track, which is achieved either through rest in a safe place ,or, temporarily, the ingestion of certain drugs. Characters who become Incapacitated! cannot succeed at any Skill Tests, and immediately suffer 6 Corruption (see Chapter 3: Character Creation)! Note: Characters who must rest, but are forced to do so in an unsafe place, will not fully recover from all of their Peril until they are able to recover in safety for a while. Peril can be suffered as the result of many things, from starvation to sleep deprivation to disease. Peril may be either Physical or Mental, but as far as I can tell, this only matters when you are "getting" the Peril. Certain Drugs or Traits may allow you to ignore Peril of one type or another. But once it goes on your Peril Condition Track, it's all the same. When suffering Peril, however, it's always in some combination of d10 rolls plus a number equal to the number of d10s rolled, e.g., 1d10+1, 2d10+2, etc. This Chapter also explains how to overcome and heal Damage and Injuries, both in the short and long terms. The importance of this should be obvious, as Damage and/or injuries can kill your Character, or may leave them with permanent or disfiguring injuries. Unlike Peril, Damage Injuries can't be "slept off". Both must be treated. Magickal healing is rare in Zweihander, which aims more toward the dark, painful and unsanitary conditions of the middle ages than the gleaming spires of Tolkien's Middle-Earth. Characters can Bind their Wounds in order to move up the Damage Condition Track. This may be done by performing a Successful Heal Test, the Difficulty Rating of which will be determined by the Character's current position on the Damage Condition Track. This requires the possession and subsequent expenditure of a bandage each time. Characters may only move one step Up the Track every 24 hours, unless the Heal Test is a Critical Success, in which case, they will move 2 Steps Up. Should the Healing Test fail, the Character will not be able to be thus treated again until a Successful Heal Test is made. A Critical Failure indicates that the Character's Recovery has been complicated by an Infection. Also, if a Character has suffered a Grievous Injury, their wounds may not be bound until said Injury is treated. Which brings me to my next point: The Treatment of Injuries that may be sustained during Combat or by other means is separate and distinct from the Treatment of Damage, as the two are separate but related concepts in Zweihander. While Wounds, i.e., steps on your Damage Condition Track, can be treated away bit by bit, day by day, Injuries require time and attention of a different sort. Any Injury that is Moderate or Lower on the Track will earn you some Corruption. Moderate= 3 Corruption, Serious =6, and Grievous =9. Injuries can be Recuperated from slowly, at a rate determined by rolling a number of d10s according to the severity of the Injuries in question. This will take anywhere from a couple of days to a month, and there may still be permanent Damage! In any event, Moderate and Serious Injuries must be Successfully Treated in order for Recuperation to begin. Failure means a delay in Recuperation until Successful Treatment is achieved. Critical Successes will reduce the recovery time, and, as above, Critical Failure means Infection. Infection will begin the slow loss of a Character's vitality (in the form of permanent Attribute loss), but there is also a (characteristically risky) treatment for Infection- Bloodletting. The method to stop bleeding, a hazard mentioned in the previous Chapter, is given. If you have multiple Injuries, each is given its own Recuperation time, to run concurrently. Greivous Injuries will require surgery before any Recuperation can begin. This must be done within a number of days no greater than your Brawn Bonus, or the effects of the Injur(ies)y will be permanent! Binding of Wounds, Treatment of Injuries, Surgeries... all require a Successful Heal test. If you have multiple Injuries, these procedures will have a higher Difficulty Rating. Laudanum may be used to move yourself one Step Up the Damage Condition Track, but you gain Corruption by doing so. Also, Laudanum will be injurious to you if you take too much. Now that I've covered the "meat and potatoes" of Damage and Peril, as well as how to treat these conditions, it's time to delve into the rest of the Chapter. This chapter is another example of the "more is more" ethos of Zweihander, an in this way, it really works for me. Chapter 9 details, in an efficient yet sufficiently detailed way, all of the various ways in which Zweihander Characters can suffer & die. Disease, Falling, Frostbite/Heatstroke, Suffocation, Starvation, being set on fire, Drugs and Poisons (sometimes a substance is both), the list is fairly exhaustive. No one can deny the completeness of this book in terms of rules. The bases are covered, as far as bad naughty word that can happen to your Character during the course of an adventure or campaign. -Disease is covered, first with a description of conditions in the world Zweihander seeks to emulate. A filthy world teeming with unsanitary conditions, parasites, diseased creatures and even supernatural afflictions.The various ways these can be spread are listed (Ingestion, Miasma, Touch, Wounding). Then, eight diseases are listed, according to the following format: -Resist: When exposed to disease, your Character must make a Successful Toughness Test to avoid being infected. The Difficulty Rating for each disease is listed in its description. Critical Failure gets you a few points of Corruption, as well as the disease. -Duration: How long you will be afflicted. Some illnesses will stay with you until you get treatment. Some will run their course and trouble you no further. -Effect: exactly what it sounds like. What the disease does, and when it does it, in game terms. -Treatment: The worldly methods by which you may be cured (Magickal remedies are covered in the next Chapter). There are eight distinct diseases listed, each having a different effect, duration, and cure. This is the Zweihander approach in a nutshell, and it works very well for me. Rather than an encyclopedic and highly granular list of ailments, many of which may differ but slightly in a mechanical sense, a different and better system is used. Diseases are defined by four categories, and each differs enough that every disease is distinct. It is relatively small quantities, which are then mixed and matched to yield a great variety of choices/outcomes/whatever. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's the same approach that has been used with Weapons, Professions and everything else I have seen in these pages so far. And it works. Next, there is a section about Disorders and how to treat them. Disorders, if you'll remember, are gained by earning Chaos Ranks, through the accumulation of Corruption. Disorders are the consequence of bad behavior, even if it was behavior that was necessary for your survival. And they are nasty. There are several kinds of Disorders, and when you become so afflicted, your GM will decide which kind you suffer from. It can be anything, from an unyielding obsession for drink, to a darker compulsion, even some unnatural physical mutation! But, there are treatments, as detailed here. Dangerous Treatments, that may leave you dead or somehow diminished. Good Luck! Like the rest of this Chapter, the Treatment, and the circumstances for Failure of said Treatment, are clearly spelled out. Then comes all of the environmental hazards mentioned above. While no game could ever hope to cover every situation, a really good job has been done here. Pretty much any situation you might find your character in should be covered here. Falling (eiter into a hard surface or into water), Fire (three different classifications!), weather, etc. Not stuff that's gonna happen every session, but a nice thing to have in your toolbox, just the same. The next section covers Poisons, which have been divided into 3 types: Deliriants, Toxins and Venoms. Deliriants are basically drugs that bestow temporary benefits, from the temporary increase of a Primary Attribute, to the temporary increase in one's ability to withstand Peril or Damage. But be warned, each dose will gain you Corruption. Likewise, one or more of your Attributes are likely to fail you while you are under the effect of Deliriants. That is to say, Failures will become Critical Failures while you are so impaired, and for every dose you take, more Attributes will be affected. Drugs are bad, mkay? Toxins are mixtures that can cause Peril or limit the actions of any creature unfortunate enough to be dosed with one. These are likely to be used offensively. As with diseases, a Toughness Test is required to escape the effects. Critical Failure means that at the end of the Toxin's effect, the victim is Slain! Some Toxins work against animals, some against PC Ancestries, and some against the monsters and beasties that pose such grave danger to Characters. Venom is divided into three very broad types: Scorpion (attacks sight), Snake (Incapacitated! and will die if not treated), and Spider (Paralyzes, and may instantly kill). These are the most deadly types of Poisons in the game. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature! Chapter 9 closes with a list of items, mixtures and materials which may be made by Characters possessing the proper Skills and Trappings. These include anything from the Bandages so necessary to much of this game's healing, to Bottle Bombs (a sort of Molotov cosktail), to Gunpowder, to Antivenoms, Tinctures, and even the Poisons we've just finished reading about earlier in this Chapter. Each can be prepared in quantitties of one to three uses. More uses = higher Difficulty Rating, and these vary from one item to the next. In addition, the time and materials needed to craft each item are listed, as well as the consequences of Failure (in Zweihander, there are always consequences). These entries may seem a little "same-ey" to some, but crafting 1-3 "uses" of something works just fine for me. The minutiae of crafting isn't really my thing, and the 3 use limit keeps Players from having an endless supply of stuff, which i suspect has as much to do with game balance as anything else. Chapter 9 was jam-packed full of practical, usable stuff. The presentation was less than ideal, in my opinion, but at the end of the day, it's an incredible resource for your Zweihander game, and one that will keep you from having to adjudicate too much on the fly. Some stuff, like Deliriants are standard issue for many starting Archetypes, so it's good to have their effects at your fingertips. And despite the "lack of an implied setting", these rules help to flesh out the "Grim & Perilous" Zweihander milieu. In short, I give Chapter 9 a BIG thumbs up, venereal warts and all! Well, we're 273 pages in (out of 669). There are 4 more Chapters left, and, as you may have guessed, they get longer from here on out. Prior to this, the longest Chapter was Chapter 4: Professions, at just over a hundred pages. Most have been much shorter. All but one of the last four Chapters will be at least as long. I think I just went down a couple of Steps on My Peril Condition Track! Seriously, though, I'm looking forward to this. What I have read so far has been great, and I can't wait to see how the Chapter on Magick and the Bestiary flesh out this game's "not-setting" even further. I'll return as soon as I can, with an in-depth look at Magick, in the form of... [b]CHAPTER 10: GRIMOIRE[/b] [/QUOTE]
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