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So I'd been intrigued by the Dark path for Warlocks featured in the Forgotten Realms' Player's Handbook, but felt it didn't quite go far enough in hurting players now for benefits later. While I understand its somewhat antithetical to 4e's design philosophy, it was a mechanic I'd always thought was rather interesting. I decided the necromancer would be the epitome of this type of design and searched the boards to see if someone had updated the class for fourth edition. While intrigued by the necromancer that Pyrogod had designed (6/30/08 update: Necromancer class (work in progress)) I found that it felt a bit minion heavy for me.
I longed for the types of necromancers from 2nd edition AD&D, for whom an entire sourcebook was dedicated. And so, I did my best to create a necromancer who is terrifying on the battlefield, and whose abilities are alarming to allies, deeply disturbing to the party's paladin and a constant tactical choice for the player between hurting allies, hurting himself and when the right amount of each is required.
I'd love any feedback anyone would like to offer, and I should first warn that this class is currently unplaytested. It goes from levels 1 through 10, and features a few bonus feats and a new monster (usable by the class as a familiar).
This is an extremely interesting take on the necromancer. Arcane Leader? I did a double-take on that until I read the Manipulate Life power. Brilliant!
I've only done a cursory once-over of the document, but what I have seen, I really really like. I want to encourage you keep up the hard work you've put into this. I really like it and hope you'll see it all the way to 30th level with paragon paths.
It's definitely my plan to do so. Woefully real world needs have taken precedence but the class is still cooking and I'll be updating it for Paragon level at some point and then for Epic.
Forgive me my fanboyishness, but this is a good class. Of course real-world takes precedence, so you make sure you take of that first. Just knowing you haven't forgotten is more than I can ask for.
i am also working on a slightly more controller-flavored necromancer. to be honest most of the powers im using so far are re-flavored from existing material, but i like a lot of hte unique powers you came up with.
with your permission i'd like to modify a few of them to fit into the controller-flavored build im testing out. would you mind?
Sure thing, feel free to use and modify some of what I've created here. Eventually there'll be more levels worth of it, once I've got some more free time to write.
When you wrote in the flavor that someone would have to pay the price for another's healing, I was imagining abilities that would drain life from one target and give it to another. Some of the abilities do this, but not the basic one. Perhaps you can have the ability allow you to touch up to two creatures, and have the one spend a healing surge on behalf of the other, with the note that you may include yourself as one of the two targets.
This would also make the undead side effect meaningful, as you'd be able to weaken living targets if you maneuvered right. As it is, I see the weaken+damage thing as flavor only, as no one would do it voluntarily. (Unless they themselves were undead, and wanted to use it to damage others)
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The anti-undead clause is both flavour and a safe guard so that you cannot gain an infinite number of surges via your Shadow Summoning. Theoretically you could summon the shadow, lose a few HPs, steal surges from it and then regain the HPs, then wash-rinse-repeat. At least one of the paragon paths will allow faster summoning of the shadow familiar and more familiars, so this could become abusive.
Plus the life is coming from somewhere in the basic healing ability, it's just a much more direct transfer - either your life to another or their life to you. This was intentional, particularly to allow the party to retain mobility with a necromancer as the only leader. If the life transference required both targets to be adjacent to the necromancer, it would keep the party very tightly formed and also very vulnerable to enemy artillery attacks.
Perhaps it's just me, but the abilities really scream "Shadow power source" to me. Otherwise, it's a great class and quite close to what I was planning on doing with the necromancer (Shadow leader).
Perhaps it's just me, but the abilities really scream "Shadow power source" to me. Otherwise, it's a great class and quite close to what I was planning on doing with the necromancer (Shadow leader).
I would agree, EG, if WotC had already set pen to paper defining exactly what the Shadow source is and what it is capable of doing. Right now, even with the barbarian playtest out, I'm loathe to tempt fate even with our interpretations of the Primal power source, let alone Shadow, Psionic, or Elemental.
Point taken. I guess it is hard to say what will differentiate the different power sources in the end...
That having been said, though, I don't blame you at all for liking it for what it is. And if the Shadow source does indeed turn out to be what everyone and their Great Uncle Sally are assuming it will be, this will make a perfect Shadow leader.
For now, though, it makes a fantastic Arcane leader for those who do not want to play an artificer or one of the plethora of bards out there.
Thank you for the compliments. As for the reasons I didn't make this a shadow-sourced class, as stated we don't really know what it does yet and I wanted my necromancer to stand out a bit. The necromancers of previous editions, while always depicted as somewhat different, still had to follow the same rules as other wizards. I wanted to try and tap into that and show that the Necromancer is almost like a wizard, but he's gone farther than others and it's marked him as somehow different. He's crossed the lines that other wizards know there is no coming back from.
I would second the shadow power source comment. But firstly, I like it! One thing I had in mind, though, was a change to "Manipulate Life". It seems a bit out of place in comparison to the other class feature healing actions:
Healing Word - an ally spends a healing surge and regains hit points
Inspiring Word - an ally spends a healing surge and regains hit points
Lay on Hands - you spend a healing surge and an ally regains hit points
All three of these are minor actions, are usable a certain number of times per encounter, are guaranteed to work, and take healing surges away from your party. Your ability is a minor action and is usable a certain number of times per encounter - check. But it is not guaranteed to work; you have to land an attack on an enemy. Also, it takes healing surges away from your enemies (although monsters don't really use this mechanic in my experience). I have an idea to keep with the same theme, which I like, but to reconcile these two differences.
I thought it would be interesting to make this ability a reversal of or shadow to the paladin's "lay on hands" ability. In essence, the ability would allow you to take a healing surge from any willing ally and grant hit points to any other ally. This would be guaranteed (no attack necessary) and would stick with the themes of sacrifice and redistribution of health that your necromancer class seems predicated upon. It might also be cool to base the number of times it is usable per day on some secondary ability (such as charisma or wisdom).
Blood Pact
At-Will (Special) <> Shadow, Healing
Special: You can use this power a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), but only once per round.
Minor Action, Melee touch
Target: One willing ally
Effect: The target spends a healing surge but gains no hit points. Instead, a different ally you can see regains hit points as though (s)he had spent a healing surge. The target must have at least one healing surge remaining for you to use this power.
But it is not guaranteed to work; you have to land an attack on an enemy. Also, it takes healing surges away from your enemies (although monsters don't really use this mechanic in my experience).
It's been stated that enemies have a number of healing surges which scale with their tier, you can find that on page 7 of the Monster Manual. They have one surge per tier, but most monsters have no way to spend their healing surges. I'll admit that will be of limited detriment to most monsters, however it does work.
The part you're missing though is that you only need to make an attack roll against an unwilling target. Your (presumably) willing allies will let you use the power on them, and in turn you may either spend one of their healing surges to heal yourself or spend one of your healing surges to heal them.
The ability to use this type of healing offensively (healing yourself at the cost of an enemy's surges) is a different take on the healing mechanic than we've seen with other leaders. It also is a risky way to use the ability since it can only heal the necromancer herself, you must be within melee range and you must land the successful attack roll. However that was meant to be almost a secondary usage for the ability - the primary use remains being within melee range of allies and spending your surges to heal them or vice-versa.
Edit: In addition, in reference to the Shadow Power Source, it hasn't officially been released yet. I am also trying to make this necromancer harken back to the sort of classic necromancer archetype we've seen in previous editions of the game - which has meant a wizard who delves too deeply into life and death. This take on the necromancer is based around the study of arcane mysteries and secrets, which may seem similar to the shadow power source, yet I feel stands apart from it since the necromancer isn't drawing his power directly from the Shadowfell but rather his studies and own willpower.
Last edited by TheLordWinter; 9th November 2008 at 01:03 AM..
Reason: Further clarification
Edit: In addition, in reference to the Shadow Power Source, it hasn't officially been released yet. I am also trying to make this necromancer harken back to the sort of classic necromancer archetype we've seen in previous editions of the game - which has meant a wizard who delves too deeply into life and death. This take on the necromancer is based around the study of arcane mysteries and secrets, which may seem similar to the shadow power source, yet I feel stands apart from it since the necromancer isn't drawing his power directly from the Shadowfell but rather his studies and own willpower.
Actually in the phb it details the other power sources, check out the phb page 54
"Future power sources include elemental, ki, primal, psionic, and shadow."
Actually in the phb it details the other power sources, check out the phb page 54
"Future power sources include elemental, ki, primal, psionic, and shadow."
I must say that I don't think that really counts as detailing them. However if you'll look at the description provided for the arcane power source on that page, which goes into where the power comes from, it is pretty much exactly what I had in mind for the class. It's a different flavor of arcane caster, whose power comes from intensive study and research.
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