4e Fan Creations and House RulesWorking on variant powers? Statting up a PC race or your version of a monster? Creating or converting an adventure? Put it here!
I was designing a way to make a tiny race. At the moment, they are little animalistic hairy folk.
Currently it moves like this
Speed: 3
Half Crawl Hustle: When you have at least one free hand, add 3 to your speed.
Low Center: When you have at least one free hand, you may drop prone as a free action.
I was designing a way to make a tiny race. At the moment, they are little animalistic hairy folk.
Currently it moves like this
Speed: 3
Half Crawl Hustle: When you have at least one free hand, add 3 to your speed.
Low Center: When you have at least one free hand, you may drop prone as a free action.
Could you clarify Low Center for me a bit? As written, it looks like you can grant combat advantage to enemies as a free action if you have at least one hand free.
I would appreciate any explanation of the benefits of that ability. Danke
__________________ OP By Stalker0
Neo: "So, what are you trying to tell me? At 30th level I don't get anything?"
Morpheus: "No Neo. I'm telling you that when you're 30th level; you won't need anything."
The half crawl is definitely unique, I'll give you that. Could also work as a feat to expand an existing tiny creature too.
With falling prone, I'd say if Low Center was done in a way to grant an advantage in the action you actually fall prone (e.g. gain a +2 bonus to AC as an immediate reaction or something) at the consequence of being granting combat advantage at the start of the following round, it would make a little more sense.
Being prone grants combat advantage in melee. At range, it instead gives +2 to all defenses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PH1, page 277
PRONE
* You grant combat advantage to enemies making melee attacks against you.
* You get a +2 bonus to all defenses against ranged attacks from nonadjacent enemies.
* You’re lying on the ground. (If you’re flying, you safely descend a distance equal to your fly speed. If you don’t reach the ground, you fall.)
* You take a –2 penalty to attack rolls.
* You can drop prone as a minor action.
The ability to fall prone as a free action is cool, but it needs to be coupled with the ability to stand up from being prone as less than a move action - perhaps as a free action, but only on your own turn?
__________________ Carl Cramér
Member of the Netbook of Feats review board.
I'm currently working on this myself, creating a tiny slightly insectoid faerieish race. It flies, and fast flying doesn't seem that odd to me (and I do like the idea of an altitude limitation), but it'll probably still only have a move of four.
Might scale damage down slightly, but I'm pretty sure that a tiny dagger slicing open veins can do just as much (if not more) damage as a normal dagger slicing open veins.
My big issue is this: Four tiny creatures fit in a square, yeah? And it has a reach of 0, so it has to move into the square to attack. Do you think it's necessary to indicate what side of the square it occupies? Before anyone says, "no, why would it?" allow me to say: flanking. How the heck does flanking work with tiny creatures? I can't seem to figure it out/find it in any book. Is it buried in the DMG somewhere that anyone knows of?
Now, the easiest way to deal with this is to just say, no, it can't flank. Tiny is too tiny to really divert attention from the medium sized guy with the very large sword. And I'd be willing to accept this if we were talking about monsters but... A) The race is going to be +2dex/cha, and they're meant to make good rogues. And what, exactly, is the use of a non-flanking rogue? B) Since it's a PC class, that means that somewhere out there is (possibly) a 30th level rogue/sorcerer. Monsters would be wise to watch their backs, no matter how tiny the PC may be.
Well my small race ATM are gremlins. They look and act like crazy destructive monkeys with no tails and a lot less hair. They walk with their hands (well one of them) and move like four.. err.. three legged beasts. Being always crouched, they can drop prone quickly. Their racial power lets them jump on a larger creature's back and grant CA to all aliies while boosting their damage. A mix between the rogue powers Close quaters and Garrote grip.
Soul Mote:
A soul mote is a soul that, for one reason or another, has not been claimed by the afterlife. It may even be a soul of someone yet to be born.
A soul mote appears as a floating wisp of light. it's color depends on the personality of the soul.
Soul Motes have Fly 5 (hover) with a height restriction of 2 squares.
A soul mote can absorb an weapon's essence, allowing it to attack as if it where wielding the item. This can also be done to other items, allowing the soul mote to behave as a fully equipped character.
Any items absorbed this way are destroyed in the process. The soul mote can destroy the essence that it holds within its self, producing essentia as if the item had been disenchanted.
My big issue is this: Four tiny creatures fit in a square, yeah? And it has a reach of 0, so it has to move into the square to attack. Do you think it's necessary to indicate what side of the square it occupies? Before anyone says, "no, why would it?" allow me to say: flanking. How the heck does flanking work with tiny creatures? I can't seem to figure it out/find it in any book. Is it buried in the DMG somewhere that anyone knows of?
Any thoughts or resources for this issue?
There's nothing I can find (outside of Ask the Sage or anything similar) indicating tiny creatures cannot provide flank specifically, but it can be equally argued that they cannot for the very reasons you mention. But powers are rulebreakers and that's why we're designing rule breakers in the form of racial powers and traits.
Considering these creatures will be armed and feature a unique method of moving (as we've seen here), I think it's safe to say a tiny creature can shift "within his square" as a free action to cover the whole square in battle. I'm going to post up Exercise #2 tonight specifically to cover space and reach issues, so I'll be sure to make reference to flanking. I say they can, but would like to see some ideas on how these little guys can do it.
Soul Mote:
A soul mote is a soul that, for one reason or another, has not been claimed by the afterlife. It may even be a soul of someone yet to be born.
Care to post your powers for us to see? This is a curious design.
A very interesting concept, here. Would it be considered a racial trait to ignore tremorsense since the soul mote only flies?
I'd think that wouldn't be needed at all and would just be a common sense thing that flying creature do not attract tremorsense. But if it's not written down anywhere, probably safe to have it there all the same.
Well my small race ATM are gremlins. They look and act like crazy destructive monkeys with no tails and a lot less hair. They walk with their hands (well one of them) and move like four.. err.. three legged beasts. Being always crouched, they can drop prone quickly. Their racial power lets them jump on a larger creature's back and grant CA to all aliies while boosting their damage. A mix between the rogue powers Close quaters and Garrote grip.
Nice. Fey creatures seem to be the likely choice for a tiny creature and the idea of a gremlin sounds familiar but open to a lot of interpretation. Just so long as your version doesn't live inside printing presses. (shudder)
Nice work everyone. I'm going to start up Exercise #2 tonight and you will be asked to handle the space and reach of a tiny creature... I'm just working on the particulars of the exercise. Once this is done, we can look at specific attacks/damage types for tinies in week 3 and then there will be a "final submission" exercise in week 4 where you take material posted in the previous weeks to create a full version of a tiny race.
My big issue is this: Four tiny creatures fit in a square, yeah? And it has a reach of 0, so it has to move into the square to attack. Do you think it's necessary to indicate what side of the square it occupies? Before anyone says, "no, why would it?" allow me to say: flanking. How the heck does flanking work with tiny creatures? I can't seem to figure it out/find it in any book. Is it buried in the DMG somewhere that anyone knows of?
Now, the easiest way to deal with this is to just say, no, it can't flank.
<snip>
Any thoughts or resources for this issue?
As far as I am aware, there are no rules requiring a Tiny creature to specify which side of a square it occupies, so my answer would be "no" on that one.
Also AFAIK, there is no rule saying Tiny creatures don't flank either, so that means they flank just fine.
Now, I don't know the final answers. But I can tell you need to read the rulebook the way it was meant. And that means you need to assume any perceived rules omission is intentional rather than accidental.
In other words, if the rulebook doesn't say Tiny creatures work differently when it comes to determining squares and flanking, then they simply don't work differently! It isn't that the rulebook "doesn't cover tiny creatures" - it's that tiny creatures work exactly the same as everybody else, except when specifically mentioned otherwise.
(Besides, requiring Tiny creatures to keep track of square sides is complicated. And 4E isn't about complicated. It doesn't sound like a 4E rule to me. And denying Tiny creatures a central concept like flanking is, as you say, completely out of the question. Not getting to do OAs - without a reach weapon - is bad enough.)
The rulebook simply leaves it up to you to explain or picture how this works...
And if you ask me (again, assuming no one finds any rules references to the contrary) I would interpret this that 1-4 Tiny creature(s) whizzes about inside its square, continuously covering it in its entirety, thus providing flanking just like a Medium character.
wait, why is this NSFW? what are you doing with these tiny creatures?
Actually, the question is what are YOU going to do with these tiny creatures?
(And I don't know about you, but there are few bosses who can understand you weren't able to attach the new cover sheets to the TPS report because you ran into an issue with the flanking abilities of a tiny creature no bigger than the hand he uses to write out your pink slip. Not suitable indeed.)
In other words, if the rulebook doesn't say Tiny creatures work differently when it comes to determining squares and flanking, then they simply don't work differently! It isn't that the rulebook "doesn't cover tiny creatures" - it's that tiny creatures work exactly the same as everybody else, except when specifically mentioned otherwise.
There are a couple of matters that would have to be addressed somehow. Tiny creatures have a reach of 0 and there is nothing written down for how tiny creatures wield weapons featured in the PHB. They can also stand within the same square as their target and attack but can you flank from the same square - the rules state you must be standing adjacent. So there are some things we can clarify to avoid issues even if the rules never mention it because they are not needed. There are a couple of issues in tiny PCs that I can see players and GMs disagreeing on.
Excellent work, everyone. There's quite a few options available here to consider when we come down to the final builds at the end of the month. Be sure to keep an eye on this thread because future exercises will make use of what's been built here.
The next exercise is all about reach and space, which makes sense because it came up quite a bit here. These can be designs to fix what you feel is a specific problem for tiny creatures or just something involving reach and space that would be crazy cool. Enjoy and keep it up.
Sorry for the late entry! I did not see a specific time limit on the initial post...
Also, are these entries meant to be original for this not-a-contest? This is from a race I designed some time ago, so, feel free to disqualify it if that violates the spirit of the not-a-contest.
Pixie Flight: You can fly 6 squares as a move action. You can fly in any direction, and can take double moves and use the run action while flying. Because you can hover, you can shift and make opportunity attacks while flying, and don't need to maintain a minimum speed or spend a move action to stay aloft. If you are knocked unconscious, you fall to the ground. If you are knocked prone or crash into something, you descend safely for six squares; if you don't reach the ground by then, you fall the rest of the way. You can't fly if you are carrying more than a light load.
Note: Flying, available right from first level, can complicate the game (mostly, challenges involving climbing or crossing chasms become much easier, and pit traps much less dangerous). But, tiny races also add complexity, and some gaming groups don't mind this added complexity. This race is for them.
And an attack power (probably available as a feat power, or part of a racial paragon path)
Buzz / Pixie Racial Power You flutter around a foe, darting past his defenses. Encounter * Weapon Standard Action / Melee weapon Targets: One creature Effect: Before the attack, shift up to your speed, moving through enemy spaces. Attack: Dexterity vs. AC. You gain a +1 bonus on your attack roll for each square of your shifting which passed through the target creature's space. Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage. Level 11: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage. Level 21: 3[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
-- 77IM, declares himself winner of the not-a-contest ;}
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(See the first post for answers)
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