Forked Thread: Mage-Brute (revisited)

[Dannyalcatraz]

Forked from: Mage-Brute build help

Originally Posted by My DM

"The only source books we will be
using are the PHB, the Complete Adventurer, the Complete Arcane , the Complete Divine, and the Complete Warrior. The only class from those book I'm allowing is the Favored Soul. We will not use any prestige classes also. "

This is the environment into which I'm going to try a variant on the (virtually) non-casting spellcaster.

So, I decided on Sorcerer with Dragon Heritage and Dragon Breath as the basis. He will probably be Human.

The important questions are:

1) Do I run this guy as a solo-classed Sorc (maximizing his BW) or do I multiclass him with some kind of warrior class?

2) If I multiclass him, is it better to start him off as a Sorc or as a warrior?

Option 1- Sorc: If he's human, I start with 2 Feats, meaning I can have Dragon Breath right out of the gate. The spell "Master's Touch" would allow him to use a weapon with proficiency, and since it has no S components, he can cast it in armor. Now, he won't be proficient in the armor...but that spell and BW means it won't matter much. Its KEWL right out of the gate, but may experience some difficulties in surviving or contributing to early combats.

Option 2- warrior class: Weapon and armor proficiencies. Unfortunately, I won't be able to start using the BW until 6th level at best, since even the first Draconic Feat has Sorc1 as a prereq. This is the conservative choice, but one that is probably more "do-able."

Other suggestions within the framework above are quite welcome.

[Rechan]

Wouldn't it be better on a rules forum?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Its less an issue of rules and more one of style.

Besides, as far as I can tell, you can't control where the Forked thread lands- it stays in the same Forum as the thread from which it was forked.

[Rechan]

To answer your question:

If you don't multi-class him, you're going to have suck-all for HP and BAB. Something that's, well, important for a guy who's in the trenches hittin' monsters with an axe.

The threat of multi-classing with a barbarian is that when you rage, you can't cast spells.

[Dannyalcatraz]

If you don't multi-class him, you're going to have suck-all for HP and BAB. Something that's, well, important for a guy who's in the trenches hittin' monsters with an axe.

Point taken, and its a good one.

I guess now the only real decision is which PHB warrior class I should take.

I'm currently prioritizing the classes as: Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Barbarian, some kind of Cleric or Druid. I know Clerics and Druids can be made in ways that outshine the warrior classes in combat, but I'm not sure Cleric fits my (admittedly still nebulous) PC concept. (Originally, it was going to be a Sorc/Marshal, but the DM's restrictions killed that idea.)

The Fighter gives me full access to armor and weapons and a lot of combat Feats. I had been thinking about going with a polearm, but I just got an email letting me know that polearms as a primary weapon wouldn't be a good idea given the kind of adventures he has planned.

Paladin gets the armor & weapons, and instead of Feats, several of its class abilities synergize nicely with the Sorcerer's casting stat, Charisma. There are some interesting possibilities playing a holy warrior who is also arcanely potent.

Rangers lose some armor proficiency, but you get combat styles, favored enemies, and other stuff.

Barbarians get more armor than rangers, the big D12, and Rage. Multiclassed with this kind of Sorcerer, you get a strong Shaman/Sorcerer vibe...almost a "boogeyman." Piling up the stuff from the Power attack Feat tree wouldn't suck, even though the Fighter can do it faster.

Clerics open up a world of possibilities with their domain powers and command over undead...and, of course, armor. Druids get me the "Merlin" vibe, especially once the PC can shapechange.

Any flavor just leap out at you?

The threat of multi-classing with a barbarian is that when you rage, you can't cast spells.

With Dragon Breath, he won't be casting many.

Instead, 75+% of the time in combat, he'll be channeling his spell energy into his breath weapon for 2d6xSpell Level in damage. Its a supernatural ability that can be used in armor without ASF, can be used while raging or grappling, and doesn't provoke AoOs.

The tradeoff is this- while the use of spell energy when channeled as a Breath Weapon can be more powerful when that level is first gained, because of the way arcane spell damage autoscales, they'll do more damage at higher levels when cast properly. For example- Burning Hands channeled as a BW by a 1st level PC will do 2d6 damage...but when used by a higher level PC, it can do as much as 5d4. So, mucho power at low levels, not nearly as much at higher levels.

However, he won't be bothering with most attack spells. The PC's spell selection will strongly favor spells without somatic components and that are generally used before or after combat- Knock, Hold Portal, Master's Touch, Sonic Weapon, and so forth.

In a way, he'll be channeling spells for damage in much the way Clerics channel Heals or Druids channel Summons.

[blargney the second]

Any chance you can use stuff from the SRD? If so, I'd recommend the battle sorcerer.

[Dannyalcatraz]

I tried that one on him in a previous campaign, as well as the Warmage.

Instead, he HRed the standard Sorcerer because "neither appeared in his campaign world." (Nevermind that his HRed Sorcerer was fairly similar to the Battle Sorcerer.)

Odds are good that he'll not use the BSorc since its not in his approved sourcebooks- he's already turned down taking in polearm feats piecemeal and the Reserve Feats in general ("Get a crossbow!" he said). I think part of it is that he doesn't feel like vetting all the stuff, so he fears that someone might try to put one over on him.

Heck, having emailed him this PC concept (using much of the language above), I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to cut out the Draconic Heritage feats... It is rather...out there, after all.

(Which is cool and all...I'd just come up with something else.)

[blargney the second]

Yowzah. Sounds... restrictive. I'd probably just play a straight druid and call it a day. If there was a particular flavour I was going for I'd just refluff the abilities accordingly. *shrug*
-blarg

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ah...I just love playing arcane warriors...especially armored spellcasters. I wouldn't be surprised if someone looked at all of my FRPG PCs (in all systems) and found fully 60% of them to be arcane warriors of some kind.

And without PrCls, this is probably the way to go. He'll be wearing armor and casting spells...and even occasionally...err..."mouthing off."

Besides, I have no doubt that we'll have someone playing a Druid- we had 2 multiclassed Druids and a full Druid last campaign. The 2 MC Druids (hmm...there's a name for a rapper) both had at least 30% of their levels in Druid.

In contrast, we had a similar breakdown in arcane casters, but of the 2 MC Arcane (oooh...another rapper!) casters, one had only a single Sorcerer level. The other- mine- had 5 caster levels, but as a Diviner, didn't bring much "firepower" to the fight. (Nobody turned up their noses at his Bull's Strengths, though.)

This guy is different, on a lot of levels. He's a non-casting arcanist with a full spell progression. Depending upon which warrior class he takes, he's going to be wearing Studded Leather, Hide, or Splint Mail, freeing up spell slots for him to use Master's Touch to get proficiency with his melee weapon (martial or exotic, I haven't decided yet) until he multiclasses- 2nd or 3rd, depending on how things work out.

Its risky, its different, its...refreshing. He's armored and all, but he's only got a d4 HD. Its an RP circus stunt- I'll be walking a tightrope, and this guy might fall to his death in the first combat.

So be it. Then I'll rebuild him the conservative route and MC him into Sorcerer after taking warrior class levels.

At this point its looking like, despite the Cha synergy, Paladin won't cut it. The class's MC restrictions are a bit more restrictive than I can afford. And even though there are feats that let Paladins multiclass, none (of the ones in the books allowed, at least) let them MC with Sorcerers. None of the other divine casters float my boat, either.

So that leaves Barbarian, Fighter or Ranger.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Originally Posted by blargney the second

Yowzah. Sounds... restrictive.

Heh...he just emailed me: Cha gen will be Øld schøøl: Roll 4d6 and drop the lowest.

[blargney the second]

In other words, don't make plans.
-blarg

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh, its not like that- we can arrange the resultant rolls any way we like.

And at this point, I have my stats:

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 17

So, he's actually pretty impressive, physically, for a Sorcerer. His lower than avg. Wis score probably marks him as a bit of a hot-head. And that Cha score is pretty doggone high...actually higher than he'll need- given his need for future multiclassing, he's never going to get 7th level spells. Perhaps I'll swap it with one of the 16s.

[szilard]

Hmmm... have you considered Favored Soul? You could be a Favored Soul of a dragon-god to get the draconic flavor, and you'd be far more competent in combat.

-Stuart

[Dannyalcatraz]

I won't argue the superior combat competence of the Favored Soul- I've seen them in play. However, there are 3 problems.

1) there are no draconic gods in the PHB + Completes, last I checked.

2) Draconic Heritage has Sorc1 as a prereq

3) Draconic Breath only lets you convert arcane spells into breath weapons.

(And like I said, I have a special place in my heart for arcane warriors.)

That said...Favored Soul might make a good second class for the PC. Hmmmmm...

[blargney the second]

Only two ways you're getting arcane spells in armor in that setup:
1) Spells with no somatic components or stilled spells.
2) Bard.

I'd go for the latter - you've got the stats for a reasonable melee bard.
-blarg