Who is at fault?

Pielorinho · Oct 9, 2006

Moderator's Notes
Hi, carn! Since jaws has been asked not to post again in the thread, it's good form for other folks not to respond to him, either.

Thanks!
Daniel

Primitive Screwhead · Oct 9, 2006

carnanick said:
The other day my players were very very very angry at me...And as DM I almost killed them(not in game, I mean for real). Anyhow I'm curious as to what would be your approach to this situation.
-plot-
Party of lv. 7 characters are attacking a temple dojo run by Monks of the Long Death.
There are two guards. The party's mage type, goes invisible, and blasts the guards with a fireball, the others open fire with missle weapons. One guard survives the fire ball (monk-evasion) and attacks the party's monk. The monk is killed, but he raised the alarm, even taking an entire round to do so.

Hmm.. Beyond the whole move 600' out of the way conversation, something struck me about this...

THe group was attempting to attack a dojo, meaning monks for sure, try to walk in by blasting the front door down and get an auto-lock down, guard pointing scary things at you so lets talk......

What exactly was this encounter supposed to be, the group assaulting the monks or some plot device? I figure from your description that the players thought it was an assualt. Being blocked by "guards that obviously overpower and are set up to slaughter you" is contrary to the expected assualt in type encounter.. they should have known beforehand if this is a plot device "you guys really need to talk to them" encounter..

So, agreeing with most posters above, any yelling match has parts of blame to spread around to all parties. I will add that running encounters that meet with the expectations of the players is usually a good thing, and clear communication of placement is *always* a good thing

Terwox · Oct 9, 2006

If there was any kind of cover within 600', they wouldn't have to run that far -- trees or whatever to hide as they run through as fireball requires LOS.

If it's your normal dojo on top of a hill/something, though, well, they're out of luck.

Sounds like you have a whiny player who felt like they were getting railroaded, and everyone else sided with them.

D&D is never worth screaming over, though. If D&D and being a good DM is that important there, well, screaming does not make a good DM.

If you're ever beginning to lose your cool in a game, walk away for a bit. Bathroom, beverage, smoking, whatever.

werk · Oct 9, 2006

All are to blame, so none are to blame.

You should have been more clear and could have run things a little tighter.
They should have been more clear and made sure that you understood their action.

No foul, replay the down.

Chimera · Oct 9, 2006

Terwox said:
If there was any kind of cover within 600', they wouldn't have to run that far -- trees or whatever to hide as they run through as fireball requires LOS.

Line of Sight to the place where the Area Effect goes off. Not to the victim, who you don't need to see.

If I know you're behind a tree, I don't need to target you. I can target the fireball to explode just past the tree.

Besides the entire messy issue of Cover vs. Area Effect spells.

moritheil · Oct 9, 2006

carnanick said:
-Ok then he says we run away. I say, "you will all die".

IMHO this is where you went wrong. Never say "you will die" as a DM - that angers people. Also, never try to tell someone they can't do something. Instead, just describe what happens and roll for damage.

If you wanted, you could have said, "Ummm," and pointed to the map, but as a DM you shouldn't interfere with their decision-making more than that.

Players generally learn by dying repeatedly, not by being told what to do or what not to do.

That said, I don't think you as a DM are to blame, just that you could have used a bit of finesse there in breaking the situation to them.

Thurbane · Oct 10, 2006

Houserule I use for lobbing Fireballs etc. is to make a ranged touch attack against AC (??) and if it's a miss, use the grenade like missile chart. The AC varies by range, but is usually pretty low (AC10 or so).

Templeton580 · Oct 10, 2006

Man in the Funny Hat · Oct 10, 2006

carnanick said:
I had one. They were all 30 ft. from the temple.

The point of having a battlemat is to use it. With all the spells and missile fire a COMBAT was clearly occurring which means intiative, combat rounds and all that. With a battlemat (or the equivalent) and miniatures your characters ARE where they ARE. A player merely SAYING, "We'll move 600' away out of spell range," MEANS NOTHING. You continue to call out initiative order and when it gets to the players turn he will inform you just how he intends to amazingly move 600' in one round. Once combat has started and miniatures are positioned it is WAY too late to want to be 600' from WHERE YOU ARE, much less after several rounds have transpired and the player has failed to appreciate his characters danger.

It was the players mistake to not accept the potentially deadly consequences of being where they were and doing what they were doing, and a further mistake to think that he can argue his way out of his first error. It was your mistake as DM to even make it APPEAR that there was some possibility that they were NOT where the battlemat indicated their characters were. If ANYONE had an issue with where they were they should have objected immediately when battlemat, miniatures, and combat all came together.

LostSoul · Oct 10, 2006

Man in the Funny Hat said:
Once combat has started and miniatures are positioned it is WAY too late to want to be 600' from WHERE YOU ARE, much less after several rounds have transpired and the player has failed to appreciate his characters danger.

Except he "let him get away with this."

This could mean any number of things though, you never know.

Who is at fault?

Pielorinho

Iron Fist of Pelor

Primitive Screwhead

First Post

Terwox

First Post

werk

First Post

Chimera

First Post

moritheil

First Post

Thurbane

First Post

Templeton580

Explorer

Man in the Funny Hat

Hero

LostSoul

Adventurer

Similar Threads