Who is at fault?

[Crothian]

1. The characters don't know the level of the enemy spellcaster. So they wouldn't know how far to move and then some.

THey are allowed to guess. Heck, they might even guess right

2. Even if the characters figure out how powerful the caster is, they can't possibly move farther than 600' without the enemies doing something about it. That's what "rounds" are for.

And if anything in the orginal post suggested they rolled initiative or were doing things round by round I'd agree.

3. Even if the enemy just stood there and watched the characters move out of range...are the characters using yardsticks or 1000' measuring tape? I doubt that in that type of situation you are going to be counting your footsteps while moving out of range. You could judge 10', maybe 20', but estimating a 600' distance is quite a talent, especially in the heat of the moment.

The game doesn't have rules for this either way. And this has little to do with the orginal poist as that DM never said he had issues with it.

 

[Tewligan]

-And lastly I live in Newark DE, where D&D is a religon. Being a good or bad DM matters more then anything else( looks, money, women, intelligence, what ever.)

I am willing to relocate and am very interested in receiving brochures on the job and housing market for this area.

 

[BSF]

Communication is the primary problem here. While the players are responsibile for communicating effectively with each other, and with you, you are the DM and you can stop and ask for clarification on anything they want to do.

What it sounds like happened is that the group thought they could go full bore assault on the temple. It wasn't a cakewalk like they hoped so they tried to run away. Trying to run away when the opposition has ranged attacks isn't a safe bet wither. When you wouldn't let them get away with either plan, they got angry. You got angry back.

Stop being angry, talk with the players. Focus on communication.

 

[pawsplay]

Unless they had haste on, they're dead. They retreated, and there's no way to clear fireball range in one round, even running, and that's that. They screwed up.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

As has been mentioned before - communication is the key.

1. Let the players place their own miniatures on the battlemat, feel free to tell them when they try to plunk 'em down someplace silly, but otherwise leave it up to them.

2. If there is combat type activity taking place then roll initiative, I have made the same mistake more than once. Sometimes knowing when you can act can make a big difference in what you can do.

3. If a player tries to make an indeterminate action then ask for the specifics. "I run out of Fireball range" should be followed with "And how far are you guessing that is?"

4. A smaller scale map, about 50' per inch, can be used by the players to plot their approach to the area.

5. If you, or the players, have a question it is best to get it answered before it becomes an issue. Having a clear idea of what was going on would have saved both of you from a good deal of stress.

The Auld Grump

 

[Oryan77]

THey are allowed to guess. Heck, they might even guess right

Oh I agree. And that's probably what they were doing until the DM told them the casters level. But guessing right or wrong in this situation shouldn't help them. I would consider any action taken to avoid combat as a reason to initiate combat and start playing on initiatives.

I always say to my players, "If my NPC's tried doing what you're trying to do, you guys would be arguing that they shouldn't be able to". And we all know that if our NPC's started backing up 600-ft the players aren't going to just stand there roleplaying a conversation...they'll demand we roll initiative before the NPC's even get to do a single full round move action.

And if anything in the orginal post suggested they rolled initiative or were doing things round by round I'd agree.

I assumed they would be.....why wouldn't the DM play this out in initiative order? If he wasn't, that's part of the problem and I blame the DM as much as the players. Trying to escape while the BBEG is giving his speech is the same as players casting buff spells while the BBEG is giving his speech. And that's grounds for beginning the turn based encounter.

The game doesn't have rules for this either way. And this has little to do with the orginal poist as that DM never said he had issues with it.

Not everything needs to be spelled out with rules. Common sense tells me that unless I'm some skilled genius that can determine precise distances while running for my life, I'm not going to know exactly how far I've ran and if I'm out of range of danger. And I doubt his players are skilled in that way. But I agree, it has little to do with his situation because he never pointed this out. If he did, it would have been more ammo to back up his ruling.

 

[Crothian]

Not everything needs to be spelled out with rules. Common sense tells me that unless I'm some skilled genius that can determine precise distances while running for my life, I'm not going to know exactly how far I've ran and if I'm out of range of danger. And I doubt his players are skilled in that way. But I agree, it has little to do with his situation because he never pointed this out. If he did, it would have been more ammo to back up his ruling.

This is off topic but wouldn't that NPCs also need to figure out the distances to know if they are in range? The PCs might only run 500ft but the NPC Wizard I doubt has any better idea for distances then the PCs. He might think they are out of range.

 

[Oryan77]

This is off topic but wouldn't that NPCs also need to figure out the distances to know if they are in range? The PCs might only run 500ft but the NPC Wizard I doubt has any better idea for distances then the PCs. He might think they are out of range.

Good point, I never thought about that. Great, now thanks to you I'm going to have to roll randomly to see if NPC's & PC's think the target is out of range

This is an example for why not everything needs to be spelled out with rules. It will just hurt our brains trying to think about it

 

[Solarious]

The best method of guessing ranges on the run fairly would probably be rolling a Spellcraft check. It would also depend on how close you want to be to the edge of 'fireball range'. Ironicly, rolling low may be healither for your life, in certain cases.

That being said, if someone attacked a Temple of the Long Death and the attackers started running, I don't think the Sorcerors would hesitate to rain flaming doom to deliver them to the Silent Lord's sweet embrace.

 

[wedgeski]

The best method of guessing ranges on the run fairly would probably be rolling a Spellcraft check. It would also depend on how close you want to be to the edge of 'fireball range'. Ironicly, rolling low may be healither for your life, in certain cases.

Yes, exactly. This is what I've done for casters looking to locate themselves outside/within a certain spell range. Non-casters have to then take their lead. I can't remember the exact rule (it's been a while and I don't have my campaign doc handy), but it allows for both over and under-estimating.

Just out of interest, and I know that introducing 'reality' into D&D is always a lose-lose situation, I'm sure that your medieval infantry officer could pretty accurately gauge the range of, say, the fifty longbowmen standing atop the fort he's trying to assault.