Master crafter

Someone

Adventurer

• Jun 11, 2007

• #81

I didn't carefully read the whole thread, but looks like the main sticking point to balance Imbue item is that the flexibility (the imbue points, so you can add, say, goblin bane when you're fighting goblins) added to an inherent inflexible system (you're stuck with your weapon's abilities, so if you have a goblin bane weapon and you fight orcs, you suck, and thus foe - bane weapons are cheap for what they do)

In this case I can brainstorm one alternative: create a list of imbue point cost for the weapon enchantments different than the enhancement listed, where the cost is rated by usefulness and not by expected chance of being useful (So "bane" would be much more expensive than "flaming")

 

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Bront

The man with the probe

• Jun 11, 2007

• #82

After reading Imbue, I can see the sticking point. I might suggest that instead of 10 minutes of time giving you 24 hours, how about 1 minute giving you 1 hour? So, you can't just haven an all day bane weapon?

As it is right now, Imbue is very cool, but very powerful.

I love most of the rest of the PRC though.

 

B

B4cchus

Explorer

• Jun 11, 2007

• #83

I misread your suggestion about moving the CL increases (and not reducing it to 2/5). You got a good point on miving the increase form level 1, i'll change that.
Requiring SkF (craft) is a severe penalty to any non-wizard. That would actually translate in 2 feats required: (any item creation, without the PrC is at most half effective) and the required Skf(craft).

 

Erekose13

Explorer

• Jun 14, 2007

• #84

I like the class a lot, but see the difficulties inherent in the Imbue Item idea. I like Bront's suggestion of lowering the duration of the effect. Another suggestion for entrance requirements that might not be as stringent as another feat would be UMD 4 ranks or UPD 4 ranks. That way a 5th level character would have to spend another full 8 skill points to get it unless they had those skills on their lists. It ties nicely into the Eldritch/Psionic Crafter abilities too.

 

B

B4cchus

Explorer

• Jun 14, 2007

• #85

Currently i am brainstorming on a fix for imbue item. The following options have come to mind so far:
- reducing duration
- limit the abilities (making a short list of powers, which all have a required class level to use them)
- limit the abilities #2 (choose an ability or # of abilities at each class level)
- adding a check to the ability (although this mechanic will complicate things further)
- remove a couple of abilities such as bane from the list (since that seems to give the most concerns)
- rewrite the imbue item ability in a spell or number of spells, in addition making a small list of spells accesible to MC's (although i'd have to make an alternative for arcane, divine and psionics)
- changing the bonusses for certain abilites (such as bane)

I want to wait with changing the entry requirements untill imbue item has been fixed.
I'll be moving CL increase (as RA suggested) anyway.

 

Bront

The man with the probe

• Jun 14, 2007

• #86

Of note, the Eberron equivilent spells that have similar effects have a casting time of 1 minute, and last for 10 minutes per level.

Armor is +1 as a 1st level infusion, +3 as a 2nd level, and +5 as a 3rd level infusion. (This allows for a single bonus of that limit only)

Weapons are +1 Personal only at 1st, +1 to anyone at 2nd, +3 at 4th, and +5 at 6th.

The equivilent character level for those is 1st for 1st level, 3rd for 2nd level, 5th for 3rd level, 8th for 4th level, and 14th for 6th level.

Of course, as a spell, you can do it several times a day more, but that should give you some idea of an established balance to the ability. I still like my suggestion, but I could be talked into 10 minutes per MC level or Caster Level (which ever is greater) pretty easily.

I also agree that Use Magical Device is conspiciously missing from your reqs.

 

Rae ArdGaoth

Explorer

• Jun 15, 2007

• #87

I don't like the "Imbue Point List". It gives me nightmares of GW's Learner class and that insane list of abilities that he made. We did have several versions of a list, but I think our current method of ability selection is better.

Decreasing the duration to one hour severely nerfs the power of the ability. Originally, it would last through all encounters, but nerfed it will last through one or possibly two, in most cases. If we do that, I think we'd have to allow the MC to Imbue several times per day, which complicates the ability and also makes it even more versatile! I think the 10 minute Imbue that lasts all day is versatile enough without being able to reprogram your weapons several times/day.

I guess I think it's pretty fine as is.

Oh, and Bront, we both did the same comparison to the Artificer (see the previous page). =P

 

Solnath

First Post

• Jun 15, 2007

• #88

If the attractiveness of this PrC is an issue and imbue points are its backbone, why not reduce their efficiency just a tad but award more on each level? For example, 1, 2, 4, 7 and 10 for levels 1-5, respectively.

 

Erekose13

Explorer

• Jun 15, 2007

• #89

1hr or 1hr/level is generally equivalent to always available for encounters.
10 minutes or 10min/level is generally equivalent to most encounters in a series (such as a dungeon until you are forced to rest).
1 minute or 1min/level is the equivalent of 1 encounter or 2 if you push it.
1 round or 1rd/level is valuable for part of a single encounter but usually sufficient to cover the whole thing unless its the final encounter.

for example I just ran a small side quest dungeon for my E2: Secret of Gemhold adventure. The whole thing had 3 encounters (7 critters) and took in game time at most 30 minutes to explore. Everyone is 4th+ level so you can see where their spells would've come into play above.

I think 1hr or if you want to stretch it to 1hr/mc level would be sufficient.

 

R

Rystil Arden

First Post

• Jun 15, 2007

• #90

Solnath said:

If the attractiveness of this PrC is an issue and imbue points are its backbone, why not reduce their efficiency just a tad but award more on each level? For example, 1, 2, 4, 7 and 10 for levels 1-5, respectively.

Click to expand...

I don't think that they are its backbone, though--I think they are an annoying-to-balance and troublesome-if-exploited add-on that we could do without (and if removed, we could give the MC back one of its two lost caster levels, preferably the second one).