Battlerager and Tempest fixes?

SabreCat

First Post
I've heard a lot of talk on the Rules board that Battlerager and Tempest fighters aren't balanced particularly well. The Rager is boredom-inducingly hard to damage in melee, and the Tempest does striker-caliber damage along with all his Defenderly features.

Supposing those assessments are true (i.e., if you want to dispute that these builds are imbalanced, there's extant threads for doing so), what changes would you make to preserve these builds' style and flavor while making other builds remain competitively attractive?
 

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Zelc

First Post
You can nerf Battleragers by lowering temporary hit points gained to 1/2 your Con mod, same for the Invigorating keyword.

The Tempest's damage output is a problem with multi-attack powers in general. See this thread for some ideas to mitigate this.
 

evilgenius8000

First Post
How about instead of nerfing the Rager and Tempest, upgrade the Great Weapon and the One-Handed? Some random thoughts off the top of my head include greater reach for Great Weapons/just plain damage bonus, and some kind of bonus AC/defense for One-Hands.

EDIT: Though, I do agree, something has to be done about the rager's temp HP stacking.
 

Zelc

First Post
How about instead of nerfing the Rager and Tempest, upgrade the Great Weapon and the One-Handed? Some random thoughts off the top of my head include greater reach for Great Weapons/just plain damage bonus, and some kind of bonus AC/defense for One-Hands.

EDIT: Though, I do agree, something has to be done about the rager's temp HP stacking.
Well, I think Great Weapon might need a buff. Problem is, Great Weapon is supposed to deal more damage than Tempest. There is no way this is going to happen without either nerfing multi-attack powers something fierce, or like giving Great Weapon fighters 1.5x damage. Again, this is not a problem with just the Tempest class but rather with balancing multi-attack powers with single-attack powers. In just the PHB there is a Fighter 3 encounter power that deals more damage than the 7[W] Fighter 29 daily power, because the Fighter 3 encounter power has multiple hits.

And all the buffing of the other two Fighter paths in the world won't make the Rager easier to damage in combat.

ETA: I was thinking of giving Great Weapon fighters "two-handed weapons deal damage as if they were one size larger", and Single Weapon fighters (if they even need a buff) +1 AC to match with Swordmages.
 
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Starfox

Hero
I was considering a +1 AC bonus to 1h/2h fighters even before the tempest/rager options appeared, and I still am. I don't have enough data to go on tough, its more of a gut feeling.
 

Evilhalfling

Adventurer
I finally decided just to remove the Tempest and Battlerager bonus to hit with OA's. I also banned the dwarf battle vigor feat, it is just overkill in heroic tier.

Although this does encourage those fighter builds to use wisdom as a dump stat.
 

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