Cloverfield - The Immortal's Handbook 4E to 3.5 Conversion

Kerrick

First Post
No, actually it's -16, as I put it. I don't know where you guys are getting this -18, but it isn't from the IH Bestiary or from following the patterns established in the rules. Titanic is one size above Colossal, and the attack/AC mods for all sizes above Medium follow a pattern of penalties increasing by powers of 2. -1, -2, -4, -8 are Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal. Next in the list is -16, and after that, -32.
Ah, you're right. I'm brain-burnt and wasn't thinking. :(

Attack types are a good start. The monster certainly uses its Bite during the movie, and it does occasionally attack with forelegs, though UK didn't use that for an attack in the 4E version. I would make the switch that the Bite is the primary natural attack and the Claws secondary, though that's really an aesthetic choice- the only real effect would be that it gets its full +21 STR bonus on the Bite and only +10 for each Claw. It also needs the Snatch feat since it does snatch victims with the Bite more than once during the movie.
You've actually seen the movie, so I'll defer to you. :)

Suggested dice base for the Tail is 2d8 for a Titanic creature, which would yield 2d8+31 damage I think? Tails are effectively two-handed weapons for STR damage, aren't they? If it has Improved Natural Attack (Tail), then that becomes 4d6+31 which is respectable.
No, they get standard Str bonus. You only add Str x1.5 if the creature has one attack form.

Oh, and speaking of specials, the monster definitely needs Trample and Frightful Presence, the latter mainly because the 4E version has it.
Yeah, I was thinking Trample and/or Stomp too.

It may be worth statting up what a Mob of the minions looks like, in addition to the minions themselves- there is an open-content set of rules for Mobs (which is to say, Swarms of creatures above size Tiny) somewhere, isn't there? WotC published one that I don't think was ever added to the SRD, but I know they weren't the first to do it. Somebody else did a "bigswarm" earlier, and made it OGC. I just don't remember who or what it was called.
WotC's material is PI unless it appears in the SRD - they don't follow the OGL. It wouldn't be hard to come up with a new mob template, though, or simply create a discrete monster out of a group of the minions and give it stats - say, "minion cluster", since it sounds like they're only ever encountered in groups.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

dyspro

First Post
Long time listener, first time caller!

I'm all for the conversion from 4E to 3.X. I haven't seen Cloverfield yet so I feel as though I cannot be too much of a help there.

I'm sure that you guys know about the "mob template" that was listed in the DMG2. It's basically swarms for medium and larger creatures. This could cover the "minion" style monster that accompany Clover.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Okay, so where are we now?

We still need to hammer out precisely what skills we're giving him, and then divide up the available skill ranks among them, along with ability bonuses and whatever racial bonuses it gets.

Beyond that, we still haven't decided on exactly what feats to give Cloverfield.

I'm a bit concerned that the monster's AC might not be high enough, but other than spending feats on Improved Natural Armor, I'm not sure what to do about that.

Attacks seem to be coming along nicely, since they're largely standardized by type and size.

Special attacks should probably be one of the last things we focus on, particularly since the idea of feeding tubes is one we'll have to work out largely from scratch. I wonder if it'd be worth working that into some sort of integrated Swallow Whole attack, since those tubes basically let Cloverfield eat creatures. That said, the focus should be mostly converting what U_K's written, so Frightful Presence is definitely in - but at some point there does need to be some level of interpretation, so possibly Trample also.

The minion creatures should probably be the very last thing we focus on, since they're going to require an independent conversion of their own.
 

paradox42

First Post
We still need to hammer out precisely what skills we're giving him, and then divide up the available skill ranks among them, along with ability bonuses and whatever racial bonuses it gets.
True. Should we go with the even-divide-by-four idea? Or should we focus say, half on Jump, and the rest on others, just to be more sure that the beast can Go Really High when it springs? I must say that from the movie, I didn't get the impression that Clover has particularly keen senses, but it's also true that it doesn't show up on screen through more than about a fourth of the movie time (and most of those times you only get fleeting glimpses).

I'm not sure what other skills could be reasonable to give it, besides the four we listed before- Jump, Listen, Spot, Swim. Survival, perhaps, purely for hunting purposes, though really it hardly needs to with such a concentration of tiny morsels scampering about under its feet through most of the movie.

Beyond that, we still haven't decided on exactly what feats to give Cloverfield.
There are a few obvious ones: Improved Critical, possibly Weapon Focus though I honestly would prefer to avoid that one (it's a weak option for a monster of this caliber and CR), Improved Natural Attack, various selections descending from Power Attack. We also might be able to justify giving it a racial bonus feat or two.

Also, one thing I'm curious about: does v6 mention guidelines for granting monsters Divine Abilities at all? There are a few that could be quite handy for this beast, particularly Squamous (though that is an expensive option).

I'm a bit concerned that the monster's AC might not be high enough, but other than spending feats on Improved Natural Armor, I'm not sure what to do about that.
DR. It occurs to me that if we give it a high enough DR, it won't really matter that it's getting hit so often, because few hits will do more than scratch it. We might spend feats on that, in fact, if we have no better uses for them, though that may be a bit wasteful. Having high DR would also square quite well with the movie version, though admittedly most kaijus fight whole armies throwing every conventional weapon in their arsenals at them without apparently getting significantly hurt. Now, getting DR high enough to be meaningful to 100th-level characters isn't exactly easy, but it can still (at least help) solve the problem if handled properly.

That is, of course, besides the idea of giving it one or more of the divine abilities increasing natural armor.

Attacks seem to be coming along nicely, since they're largely standardized by type and size.
I do think that Improved (Tail) is a must-have, for verisimilitude with both the movie and UK's 4E version (the tail is specifically called out as one of its attacks in that version, so you know it's important), but yes, no real issue there.

Special attacks should probably be one of the last things we focus on, particularly since the idea of feeding tubes is one we'll have to work out largely from scratch.
Agreed, particularly with the feeding tubes.

I wonder if it'd be worth working that into some sort of integrated Swallow Whole attack, since those tubes basically let Cloverfield eat creatures.
Good thought. We'll want to come back to that.

That said, the focus should be mostly converting what U_K's written, so Frightful Presence is definitely in - but at some point there does need to be some level of interpretation, so possibly Trample also.
Trample is just obvious for a monster this size, plus, it again matches one of the 4E version's attacks pretty closely.

The minion creatures should probably be the very last thing we focus on, since they're going to require an independent conversion of their own.
Oh, no question of that- it was just bugging me that I can't remember which company introduced the "mob" idea before WotC included it in DMG2. I'm fairly certain I even have the book, in my library, but let's face it- there were a lot of third-party 3.X books published. I personally have over 100, I'm sure (though I've never actually counted them all). I was looking at the mob with an eye to duplicate the Infestation attack of the 4E Clover. But I do tend to be scattershot and stream-of-consciousness when designing a new monster; chalk it up to my Chaotic alignment if you like.
 

Hey guys! :)

I think one problem with DR papering over the low AC is that opponents will simply be able to power attack around it.

One possibility might be to give it a few Armor Skin (Epic) feats.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Just a quick shout-out here. I'm currently going a little crazy with end-of-the-semester work. After Monday, I should have some free time to devote to this thread again.

Cloverfield will yet terrorize 3.5 players everywhere! ;)
 

Is this thread permanently dead and/or is the 4e -> 3.5e conversion of future monsters not happening anymore?

I hope not, since 3.5e monster design is extremely fun, and I would like to be involved.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Is this thread permanently dead and/or is the 4e -> 3.5e conversion of future monsters not happening anymore?

I hope not, since 3.5e monster design is extremely fun, and I would like to be involved.

It's not dead - just in hibernation. ;)

Seriously though, if you want to be involved, please jump in. This is a public "trial run" at converting Upper_Krust's materials from 4E to 3.5, so anyone's able to participate. Remember to use U_K's CR system (v.6) and the 3.5 <-> 4E CR conversion chart on his website to help draw a baseline!
 

I'd give it fewer points in Spot, since it comes from a lightless environment where the only things visible are luminous. Maybe 1/4 Jump, 1/4 Swim, 1/4 Listen, 1/8 Spot, 1/8 Survival. That would give it (with 125 HD, 18 Wis, and 52 Str) Jump +53, Listen +36, Spot +20, Survival +20, and Swim +61 (since it will have a swim speed).

Going with the lightless thing, it might deserve blindsense, or at least scent. For a creature ~150 feet tall, its darkvision range should perhaps be longer than 60 ft.


As for Feats, I'd say Cleave , Great Cleave, Improved Critical, and Weapon Focus as prereqs for Overwhelming Critical and Devastating Critical. Some Epic Prowess feats would be good too. Perhaps Lightning Reflexes & maybe Epic Reflexes - it looks pretty quick for something that big. (Blinding Speed?)
 

paradox42

First Post
I'd give it fewer points in Spot, since it comes from a lightless environment where the only things visible are luminous. Maybe 1/4 Jump, 1/4 Swim, 1/4 Listen, 1/8 Spot, 1/8 Survival. That would give it (with 125 HD, 18 Wis, and 52 Str) Jump +53, Listen +36, Spot +20, Survival +20, and Swim +61 (since it will have a swim speed).

Going with the lightless thing, it might deserve blindsense, or at least scent. For a creature ~150 feet tall, its darkvision range should perhaps be longer than 60 ft.


As for Feats, I'd say Cleave , Great Cleave, Improved Critical, and Weapon Focus as prereqs for Overwhelming Critical and Devastating Critical. Some Epic Prowess feats would be good too. Perhaps Lightning Reflexes & maybe Epic Reflexes - it looks pretty quick for something that big. (Blinding Speed?)
Ah, activity.

Given that it doesn't see very well, an argument I accept BTW, I'd think Darkvision 60 ft. is actually appropriate even if it ends up being somewhat ridiculous in context. Remember, when using miniatures we'd only care about 60 feet from its body/position, not its head. Here I think we can afford to metagame a little. If you must, then up the Darkvision to 120 ft., but certainly no higher than that. Scent is an obvious thing for any Beast to have, so add that.

Skill numbers look pretty good to me, though remember that its ground Speed adds a bonus to Jump (that's a pretty obscure rule that's easy to forget).Using Kerrick's suggestion (gleaned from the IH Bestiary suggestions for ground speed by size) of 80 feet, that would grant a Jump bonus of +20, for a total Jump mod of +73.

And of course, this monster is really quick for something that big, that was why I argued against giving it a low DEX. Not sure Blinding Speed is an appropriate feat choice, though. The others you mentioned, I could get behind, though. Just add the fact that it needs to have Awesome Blow.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top