Cloverfield - The Immortal's Handbook 4E to 3.5 Conversion

[Kerrick]

The IH Bestiary does assume a value of 1 HD per 2 feet of height or length, so actually UK was just giving extraneous information in his post above. The fact is, 250 ft. converts to 125 HD for all monster types, as a baseline.

I know how UK's rules work, but if you look through the MM, not all creature types follow that rule. Undead, for instance, have far more HD/size than other creatures. That's why I came up with new guidelines.

Anyway, back on topic...

125 HD would give us 128 skill points, and 42 feats, being 1 HD short of a 43rd.

43 feats. Oy. That's why I came up with the rule (well, Ltheb suggested it after I asked) to limit feats to a creature's Int score. You can still give them any number of bonus feats, but it saves a LOT of time and you don't have to use "filler" feats like Toughness x20.

Maxing it out is out of the question of course (128 points would only give us one skill), but it should probably have at least 20 ranks in Jump and a racial bonus or something. Giving the beast a high Jump mod squares well with the movie, for reasons I partly explained in my earlier post.

I'd go with Alzrius and just give it a special ability - once per minute, it can make a great leap (effectively, it gets a +20 to its Jump check).

The target AC needs to be considerably higher than the 4E version, since our version is for much higher-level characters (being CR 101 we hope). We have -16 from size and +5 from DEX; the rest should obviously be made up from natural armor. But how high to go?

Natural armor: 3-4 + 1/2 HD + size mod, so 3 + 63 + 18 = 84. Yow.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Kerrick mate!

I know how UK's rules work, but if you look through the MM, not all creature types follow that rule. Undead, for instance, have far more HD/size than other creatures. That's why I came up with new guidelines.

Actually UK's rules state that the 1/2 HD per foot rule is only for creatures with natural physiognomy's. Not constructs (who are 1 HD per caster level), not fey, not outsiders and not undead.

 

[Alzrius]

I'd go with Alzrius and just give it a special ability - once per minute, it can make a great leap (effectively, it gets a +20 to its Jump check).

I wouldn't even limit it by one minute; leaping really well isn't an overpowering ability that needs to be reined in.

Natural armor: 3-4 + 1/2 HD + size mod, so 3 + 63 + 18 = 84. Yow.

A Titanic creature takes a -18 penalty to AC for its size. Likewise, the system U_K laid out in v.6 of his CR system don't say they get any additional natural armor beyond what I mentioned above.

 

[Kerrick]

Actually UK's rules state that the 1/2 HD per foot rule is only for creatures with natural physiognomy's. Not constructs (who are 1 HD per caster level), not fey, not outsiders and not undead.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Still, I've found that basing HD on type instead of a "one size fits all" thing works much better. There are several Medium creatures with more than 3 HD - the medusa, for instance, and the mind flayer, off the top of my head.

I wouldn't even limit it by one minute; leaping really well isn't an overpowering ability that needs to be reined in.

Yeah, I suppose so. It's not really that it's powerful as it's tiring - try jumping as high as you can, repeatedly, and see how quickly you wear out.

A Titanic creature takes a -18 penalty to AC for its size. Likewise, the system U_K laid out in v.6 of his CR system don't say they get any additional natural armor beyond what I mentioned above.

Forgot about the size penalty. I know the NA bonus isn't in v6 (or v5, for that matter) - it's something I mentioned one time, and he corroborated. I tweaked the values a bit, though.

 

[paradox42]

Cloverfield Monster
("Clover" for short)

Titanic Magical Beast (Aquatic)
HD: 125d10+2375 (3062 hit points)
Init: +5 (Dex)
Speed: (must have Swim speed in addition to land speed)
AC: 65 (-16 size, +5 Dex, +66 natural), Touch -1, Flat-Footed 60
Base Attack/Grapple: +125/+166
Attack:
Full Attack:
Space/Reach:
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities: Amphibious, Darkvision 60 ft., Great Leap, Low-Light Vision
Saves: Fort +83, Ref +69, Will +45
Abilities: STR 52, DEX 21, CON 49, INT 3, WIS 18, CHA 7
Skills: (128 skill points, +8 racial bonus in Swim)
Feats: Awesome Blow, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack (39 others, 4 of which must be sub-Epic)
Environment: Temperate Aquatic and Land
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 101 (target)
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: -

Combat
Great Leap (Ex): The Cloverfield Monster's jumps are always made as though it had a running start, even if it jumps from a standstill. Its jumps are not limited by its height.


It's time to take stock of what we have and start filling in blanks. The above is what we have so far- the AC looks low to me, for a CR 101. I'd suggest that the AC needs to be at least 100, given what we can reasonably expect even ECL 50 characters (the minimum reasonable to face this thing) to be able to do; Touch AC is going to be absurdly low no matter what so the spellcasters are covered. Well, it should be that high if we don't want the thing to be a pushover, anyway.

Skill-wise, I actually didn't think the monster was particularly good at spotting or listening in the movie, though admittedly it did have a lot of distractions with the army constantly attacking it. But splitting the skill points 32 Jump 32 Listen 32 Spot 32 Swim could work. Any other suggestions there?

The feats I listed above are the minimum necessary to get Awesome Blow; beyond that nothing has yet been decided though we aren't exactly on shaky ground. If nothing else we can grab lots from other kaiju beasts, even the Tarrasque if we want to.

We need to list its natural attacks and figure out damage for each one- the Improved Natural Attack feat is a possibility for all of them of course. Its actual attack modifier for standard attacks, before any changes from feats (including Weapon Focus if we give it that), is +130; recall also that standard convention is that if we want it to use Power Attack as standard then adjustments for that should be included in the basic stat block to reduce calculations made on the fly.

 

[Kerrick]

Hmm... well... size mod is -18. Speed should be (according to v5) around 80 ft. As far as attacks, it has two arms and a head (I'm assuming, from the glimpses I caught in the previews), so it would have two claws and a bite:

Claw +xx melee (4d6+21) and bite +xx melee (4d8+10).

That'll give you base values, and then you can add all the crit feats, Weapon Focus, etc.

 

[paradox42]

Hmm... well... size mod is -18.

No, actually it's -16, as I put it. I don't know where you guys are getting this -18, but it isn't from the IH Bestiary or from following the patterns established in the rules. Titanic is one size above Colossal, and the attack/AC mods for all sizes above Medium follow a pattern of penalties increasing by powers of 2. -1, -2, -4, -8 are Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal. Next in the list is -16, and after that, -32. Hide modifiers for size are based on the pattern of -4 per size above Medium, so that puts Titanic at -20, and size modifiers to Grapple are based on a pattern of +4 per size above Medium, so Titanic has +20.

Attack types are a good start. The monster certainly uses its Bite during the movie, and it does occasionally attack with forelegs, though UK didn't use that for an attack in the 4E version. I would make the switch that the Bite is the primary natural attack and the Claws secondary, though that's really an aesthetic choice- the only real effect would be that it gets its full +21 STR bonus on the Bite and only +10 for each Claw. It also needs the Snatch feat since it does snatch victims with the Bite more than once during the movie.

We do need to give it a Tail attack though; as I mentioned in my first post in this thread the monster mainly uses its tail when it demolishes the Brooklyn Bridge. If we only pick one of its attacks to give Improved Natural Attack, I'd suggest it should be that one since it gets used to devastating effect several times in the movie. Suggested dice base for the Tail is 2d8 for a Titanic creature, which would yield 2d8+31 damage I think? Tails are effectively two-handed weapons for STR damage, aren't they? If it has Improved Natural Attack (Tail), then that becomes 4d6+31 which is respectable.

UK also gave the 4E version an attack with the feeding tubes; I don't personally remember the monster doing anything with those during the movie, but it's not like we're limited to four attacks in 3.5 so if nothing else it could be added as a Special Attack. Oh, and speaking of specials, the monster definitely needs Trample and Frightful Presence, the latter mainly because the 4E version has it. It also should probably have some summon-like ability to create or slough off the minion critters (the 4E version calls it Infestation); those were a major part of the movie and quite a menace to those who were well away from the monster itself.

It may be worth statting up what a Mob of the minions looks like, in addition to the minions themselves- there is an open-content set of rules for Mobs (which is to say, Swarms of creatures above size Tiny) somewhere, isn't there? WotC published one that I don't think was ever added to the SRD, but I know they weren't the first to do it. Somebody else did a "bigswarm" earlier, and made it OGC. I just don't remember who or what it was called.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

Just wanted to speak about my addition of the feeding tubes. I had read that they designed a feeding tube scene in the movie that was left on the cutting room floor. Unfortunately this scene wasn't even in the special edition of the dvd (which I own). In fact there was no mention of it, so I cannot assert any validity to the claim, however I thought it was a cool feature to add to the monster anyway.

 

[paradox42]

Hey guys!

Just wanted to speak about my addition of the feeding tubes. I had read that they designed a feeding tube scene in the movie that was left on the cutting room floor. Unfortunately this scene wasn't even in the special edition of the dvd (which I own). In fact there was no mention of it, so I cannot assert any validity to the claim, however I thought it was a cool feature to add to the monster anyway.

It's a fair addition, just as long as we have some idea of what they actually DO to the victims. Do you have a link to the article about the scene in question, or can you describe what was intended?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

It's a fair addition, just as long as we have some idea of what they actually DO to the victims. Do you have a link to the article about the scene in question, or can you describe what was intended?

Clover's design includes appendages on his underbelly, described by Neville Page as an "elongated, and articulated external esophagus with the business end terminating in teethlike fingers". They were designed as a body part to relate the scale of human prey to the huge scale of the creature. The scenes from the film where Clover sucked people into these feeding tubes were cut from the final edit, but the fourth and final chapter of Cloverfield/Kishin shows how they work.

Further snooping suggests that the feeding tubes are shown in the Cloverfield Anime. I haven't seen that though.