D&D Essentials

Omertalvendetta · May 5, 2010

I'm not sure what to think of the D&D Essentials stuff coming this Fall. To me it feels like it's 4.5, and another way for WotC to milk money out of its consumers. However, I'm always down for new stuff and improvements to the game, I'm just curious as to whether the line was really necessary. What do you guys think?

I'll like to point out that this is not really a "whine", I'm merely looking to see if anyone can inform me a bit more on that product line, if they know? Is all that material a supplement or does it fully override all pre-existing content? I know it says that they are a supplement, but why a different name? My biggest concern is the Monster Vault (the Heroes books are worrisome too..., among other things), are there new monsters in that book, or is just a compilation/reiteration of old monsters from MM 1-3 and "essentialized"...

I may be the only one feeling this way, but I'll like to know what people are thinking about future content.

Obryn · May 5, 2010

From everything we've seen so far, it looks to be a way to bring new players into the game. The books are going to be inexpensive, and kind of geared towards people who aren't familiar with D&D. I don't think they expect every current player to rush out and buy them.

With that said, I'm sure it will incorporate a lot of the updates. While there won't be a 4.5 because of this update process, I almost wish there would be! Hopefully the Essentials line will be a good way to get the game rules, post-errata.

It might be a stealth 4.5, but if it is, I'm pretty okay with that. It's not like I won't get all the rules updates via DDI, anyway, and anything that improves the game is good in my book.

-O

UngeheuerLich · May 5, 2010

Yes, for me it is D&D 4.5 after essentials line, but really who cares. I hope there will be updated printings of the first books too. I hope they just pushed this out for after the essential lines go live, so that those are on an identical update level.

Until then my DDI account has to suffice as rule references. I am glad that Wizards does those updates. Until now they have done a good job. And their timing, like explained in their recent articles and update documents, is perfectly reasonable.

To make a WOW reference: Blizzard is also very offensive with update/patches. Admitted, it is easier for electronic articles, but fixing issues is what defines "caring for the customer base". Calling it "milking money out of you" is really unjustified. They are constantly working for you, so you should give them some money...

Festivus · May 5, 2010

I have been looking forward to the essentials line, which will give me a way to introduce D&D to non-roleplaying gamers (and my kids... who really like playing Heroes of Hesiod now).

Same with Gamma World, a boxed set with everything in it needed to play will be helpful for me to get people to play. When I whip out the PHB for any edition of D&D, it's a bit intimidating to a new player. These boxed sets, not so much I imagine.

Omertalvendetta · May 5, 2010

Updates have always been free, and that's not the issue here. The main reason I consider it milking money out of "me" is because it makes a lot of the previous material pretty much useless. Or at least, that is my fear. It's like the whole 3.0 to 3.5 changes. Those were needed, and they fixed a lot of issues, and while a lot of 3.0 material is compatible with 3.5, almost all of the 3.0 material, when put together with 3.5 material in any campaign, breaks the game/campaign in one way or another. So are we facing that dilemma in the future?

Essentials comes in, does all other material become problematic? Useless? Usable? or abusable? I hope you can see the point I'm trying to make. I absolutely support updates, and I enjoy balance, so when something's broken, yes, by all means, please fix it. Is that what Essentials will be doing, or will it be replacing some old material, much like 3.5 did to 3.0, leaving some really cool things behind that should've been "updated"...

DracoSuave · May 5, 2010

Wow. So much fear and loathing over what is essentially a 'Start D&D here product.'

It's like ya'll never seen BECMI before.

The product is a stripped down version of the D&D rules, a bit more robust than the 'how to play' part of Keep on the Shadowfell.

We're talking levels 1-3 here.

It's not 'D&D 4.5.' It's a noob product for noobs to learn how to play, and not a thing more than that.

UngeheuerLich · May 5, 2010

I can clearly see your point. And you are right in a certain way. but let me explain:

3.0 -> 3.5

3.5 broke many bonds with ADnD 2nd edition which carried over to 3.0. Those made sense and made sense within the context of the D20 game.
To retain backwards compatibility some changes even didn´t went far enough.

Yes, using 3.0 material in 3.5 could be problematic, but with an experienced group, who didn´t abuse everything, no problem.
(I started an ADnD adventure with 3.0 rules and we switched to 3.5 in the middle and it all worked perfectly.)

Here we come back to 4th edition: The game is perfectly playable without any update and most rule updates are only needed if there is an unexperienced GM who has to deal with a rules lawyer. An experienced GM knows when to say: YES, but most importantly NO.

When you look at those changes, you see many suggestions from players in this forum. Calling it "milking money" is not very polite.

There are people who spend a good part of their work time to improve the game experience. I bet some of them even in their free time... someone has to pay them to make sure they can continue their work.

Also you should keep in mind, that WOTC already doesn´t update everything that needs fixing, because if it is underpowered it doesn´t do a lot of harm to the game.

UngeheuerLich · May 5, 2010

DracoSuave said:
Wow. So much fear and loathing over what is essentially a 'Start D&D here product.'

It's like ya'll never seen BECMI before.

The product is a stripped down version of the D&D rules, a bit more robust than the 'how to play' part of Keep on the Shadowfell.

We're talking levels 1-3 here.

It's not 'D&D 4.5.' It's a noob product for noobs to learn how to play, and not a thing more than that.

I don´t believe, the essentials line is 4.5, but we will have so many updates until then (like skill overhauls) that it could be called 4.5 in a way.

I really hope people at WotC will then reprint all books with erratas included, because we can expect them to be "stable" then.

DracoSuave · May 5, 2010

UngeheuerLich said:
I don´t believe, the essentials line is 4.5, but we will have so many updates until then (like skill overhauls) that it could be called 4.5 in a way.

I really hope people at WotC will then reprint all books with erratas included, because we can expect them to be "stable" then.

When they completely re-write a class from the ground up, then I could see it being a 4.5. It's not even close to that level yet.

Changing healing word so it only works on some things isn't even close to the overhaul of the Ranger class which is what 3.5 changes were about.

Omertalvendetta · May 5, 2010

That's my question... are they doing that? Are they rewriting the classes? And where in their description does it say that it's levels 1-3? And while that may be true (most likely there somewhere and I've missed it) why would you have to show revamped/modified monsters if it's intended for those low levels... what's wrong with the old ones? That's why my fears... it simply smells like a 4.0 revamp = 4.5...