Pathfinder 1E D&D and Pathfinder tied for first place on ICv2 Q3 RPG sales list

Steel_Wind said:

[Their reaction to it was one of elation, exoneration and confirmation. High fives and a forty dollar steak time.

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To be fair, it was only a $17 dry-aged ribeye, and it was absolutely delicious.

Seriously folks, this is not a war. We are thrilled that we are doing well and were excited to see some proof of our success other than our own sales numbers. Accuracy and "big claims" aside, this particular data point is an indicator and we are treating it as such. A little celebration at a job well done, and back to work on the next book.

No need to get into huge arguments about it. This industry is just too small for infighting and backbiting. Play the game you want to play. We are doing great and that is more than good enough for me.

Thanks for all the accolades. I need to get back to work.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Retreater said:

Also, Paizo's crunch is terrible, IMO. I could go through line by line of the APG and explain its horrors if I had more time this afternoon. Broken classes and added unnecessary complexities.

(I'm sorry. I've had several awful Pathfinder experiences in the past year.)

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I am sorry to hear that. I am never happy to hear that our crunch is "terrible". While I probably do not have the time for a line by line list of issues, feel free to send me a private message with any big picture issues you might have. I am always up for feedback from players and GMs about our products... even the bad feedback.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Retreater said:

If I had to compare to video game systems, I would say that 4E is the Wii while Pathfinder is more like the PS3.

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D&D 4e is no Wii... Way to many buttons, I mean powers. Dragon Age is much more Wii like but right now all you can get is the bundled set and no extra games

Though I could see D&D 4e as the Xbox and Pathfinder as the PS3

double post

Shemeska said:

I find a ton of DM support and inspiration in much of what Paizo produces at the same time that I see really good player focused material as well - quite balanced - whereas I see 4e having swung heavily towards the rules, powers, options, feats, player crunch side of things that doesn't (again in my opinion) make it as likely to open itself to gaining new people into the hobby via current groups.

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WotC adventures are certainly not up to par with what Paizo produces (from what I understand), but common consensus seems to be that the DM products for 4E are considered to be some of the best DM content ever produced for an RPG. No hard facts here, sure, but I don't think there is anything to indicate it is a player's game only.

I will say i think it is good for their to be a healthy competition between companies. That causes both of them to strive to be better. It doesn't matter if it is RPG's, car's, internet providers or what. When that happens the customers win regardless of what company they choose. I personally would like all RPG companies to do well and sell millions of books.

After having read this thread though, it just reminds me why i so rarely visit, read or take part in ENworld anymore. Other than posting up my reviews. The sad thing is it seems people can't be happy for each other and what they like.

Some one brought up sports which makes sense really. You want your team to do well. I am a big football fan actually as are some of my friends. I have a very close fan that loves the KC Chiefs and I am a STL Rams fan. Granted last few years both of our teams have sucked. But while we trash talk any time they play each other. We are also quick to agree and point out positives about each others team, ending with... I hope your team beats everyone but my team. In our case I am quick to point out the KC run game and I predicted them having a better season than he did. He is quick to praise Bradford(rookie QB for the rams that is doing well).

So while we both like different teams and sometimes trash talk, it is good natured way. We would both like to see our team and our friends team do well. Most sports fans I know are that way. It is just a pity it seems so few gamers can feel that way about the games and companies they like.

Man, I'd be happy to be wrong with what I was thinking and to have PF and 4e both running neck and neck at full speed. Two games I like are now going to be pulling out all stops to be as awesome as possible! Sounds good to me!

Dark Mistress said:

Some one brought up sports which makes sense really.

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For sports (like, say, Big 10 Football or European soccer) riots, burning furniture in the streets, and the horrific noise of vuvuzelas, are unpleasantly common. I've seen fistfights break out over baseball statistics.

Humans will fight over just about anything. Treating each other well is not something we're terribly good at.

Umbran said:

For sports (like, say, Big 10 Football or European soccer) riots, burning furniture in the streets, and the horrific noise of vuvuzelas, are unpleasantly common. I've seen fistfights break out over baseball statistics.

Humans will fight over just about anything. Treating each other well is not something we're terribly good at.

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Yep I am aware it happens. But we shouldn't strive to change this why? Why not focus on the positive and encourage people to change?

Just saying I don't see how your post helps stopping things like the edition war. When it just sounds like your saying, well others do it and as humans we just fight. So oh well. Not saying you are saying it only saying that's how it came off sounding to me.

Mark CMG said:

I'm assuming that Paizo now reports those and their direct sales otherwise this would not be news. I get the feeling that they did not used to report all of that.

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We do not report our subscription or online sales to anybody, so they aren't used in anybody's analysis of sales ranking. iCV2 uses data from the hobby game, comic book, and book stores, if I remember correctly. Any sales by WotC or Paizo direct to the end consumer will not be taken into account.

-Lisa