Knights of the Scarlet Woman

my 2 copper pieces:

First off, I can completely see an orginization like this developing in the D&D world. Easily. Everything you wrote could unfold just as it is stated in the Greyhawk or perhaps even Eberron worlds.

Second, I keep getting fuzzy when I try to place an alignment on this. It's Lawful in it's enforcement of Chaotic-style behaviors. Because it has a strict code, however chaotic-seeming the individual tennants, I'd place this on the Lawful spectrum.

And it'd be Evil. Not heavily Evil, but the kidnapping/brainwashing/manipulation "for your own good" thing places it under "We don't think we are Evil, but the rest of the world see us as so" catagory. Now, it cannot be assumed that the Knights of the Virgin are any more Good/less Evil, because they also appear to be repressing freedoms and being controlling as well, from the little you've described of that side of the coin. They also might be "we don't think we are Evil, but the rest of the world would see us as so".

Third, I can see playing a campaign with this order existing in the world. I cannot see playing a character who was a member of this order, or the opposing one, but who might side a little bit more with the Knights of the Virgin simply because they appear more conservative, and therefore less disruptive. Participating in a campaign that wrestled with the morality that this tension brings up could make for an interesting game.

Fourth, I imagine that while both of these orders see themselves as powerful, influential forces, perhaps the majority of the common folk aren't heavily influenced by either philosophy. Sure, they'd have to pay taxes, bend and knee and appear to play by whatever rules while out in public like all good peasants would, but when they come home, they live their lives however they like. The majority of the world would still likely maintain the normal, married, having kids, traditional family unit in order to maintain any medieval, Europian flavored culture where 90-something% of the population were ordinary Commoners and Experts while the remaining people were adventurers, elitists anjd philosophers. Most people can't afford the time for pursuing such ideals.

Besides, it appears that both orders are only interested in liberating or preserving the sexuality of attractive women. All the more common-looking girls would be ignored by either side.

Dandu said:

I am not a Frenchman, woman, feminist, or homosexual, but somehow I find myself constantly horrified by the things you say.

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LOL! Amen to that! What a Truly Incredible Talent

I sent some of these posts to several of my female gamer friends.

And after a flurry of emails one summed it up nicely after I looked at the OP age. "Oh that explains so much"

It seems that you are dealing with the age old view of woman as either saints or sinners.

And there is no liberation going on here at all. Why because you are letting men decide when and how woman should express their own sexuality.

These group of knights don't care about woman at all. They sound like a bunch of spoiled frat boys who want their cake and eat it too. They want to get to have as much sex as they want without any responsibilities. Tell me what is the plan for taking care of any children born from these encounters?

As for the rape fantasy being common in woman you obliviously have never really talked to the woman who have them. Read some historical romance the ravishing of the heroine is a common theme. But it is usually done by one man and they ended up married by the end of the book.

I can see why this would appeal to some men because it is the ultimate fantasy for men, woman who want to have sex but don't put any ties on the guys freedom.

RUMBLETiGER said:

my 2 copper pieces:

First off, I can completely see an orginization like this developing in the D&D world. Easily. Everything you wrote could unfold just as it is stated in the Greyhawk or perhaps even Eberron worlds.

Second, I keep getting fuzzy when I try to place an alignment on this. It's Lawful in it's enforcement of Chaotic-style behaviors. Because it has a strict code, however chaotic-seeming the individual tennants, I'd place this on the Lawful spectrum.

And it'd be Evil. Not heavily Evil, but the kidnapping/brainwashing/manipulation "for your own good" thing places it under "We don't think we are Evil, but the rest of the world see us as so" catagory. Now, it cannot be assumed that the Knights of the Virgin are any more Good/less Evil, because they also appear to be repressing freedoms and being controlling as well, from the little you've described of that side of the coin. They also might be "we don't think we are Evil, but the rest of the world would see us as so".

Third, I can see playing a campaign with this order existing in the world. I cannot see playing a character who was a member of this order, or the opposing one, but who might side a little bit more with the Knights of the Virgin simply because they appear more conservative, and therefore less disruptive. Participating in a campaign that wrestled with the morality that this tension brings up could make for an interesting game.

Fourth, I imagine that while both of these orders see themselves as powerful, influential forces, perhaps the majority of the common folk aren't heavily influenced by either philosophy. Sure, they'd have to pay taxes, bend and knee and appear to play by whatever rules while out in public like all good peasants would, but when they come home, they live their lives however they like. The majority of the world would still likely maintain the normal, married, having kids, traditional family unit in order to maintain any medieval, Europian flavored culture where 90-something% of the population were ordinary Commoners and Experts while the remaining people were adventurers, elitists anjd philosophers. Most people can't afford the time for pursuing such ideals.

Besides, it appears that both orders are only interested in liberating or preserving the sexuality of attractive women. All the more common-looking girls would be ignored by either side.

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Aargh! I cannot XP!

Seriously, dude- not to be a dick, but have you ever even talked to a girl, homosexual or Frenchman?

You have some grade-A messed up misconceptions about stuff here, and it's making you come across as pretty mysogynistic and ignorant. The basic idea behind your knightly organization is whacked, your attitude about them seems to be "It's okay if they brainwash and mind-control women and force them to have sex against their will; it isn't rape because they get to pick a partner!"

Basically, this is the kind of thing that will prevent you from having many females in your group. I dunno, maybe that's what you want.

Is it just me, or do most of the posts that start arguements the ones where the Jester says dick in it? I think people should be mature enough to read these things, and respect an opinion, despite my sharing with the unanimous disapproval of it.

This thread is like a train wreck that compels you to look at it. Its obvious that dude needs to get laid in the worst way.

the Jester said:

Seriously, dude- not to be a dick, but have you ever even talked to a girl, homosexual or Frenchman?

You have some grade-A messed up misconceptions about stuff here, and it's making you come across as pretty mysogynistic and ignorant. The basic idea behind your knightly organization is whacked, your attitude about them seems to be "It's okay if they brainwash and mind-control women and force them to have sex against their will; it isn't rape because they get to pick a partner!"

Basically, this is the kind of thing that will prevent you from having many females in your group. I dunno, maybe that's what you want.

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Jester, to agree with Xigbar, Hunter99 is proposing a concept, asking how it would fit in a D&D world and looking for constructive input.

If I suggested a cult of canaballistic children's heart eaters who also snacked on kittens, it'd be Evil and disturbing, but no less valid as a "Let me suggest an orginization for my D&D game and get your input", and while mine truely is a more vile orginization than the Knights of the Scarlett Woman, I'm doubting my concept would get the reaction you proposed.

I think the Knights of the Scarlet Woman sounds like a fine villain group, assuming your players are ok with the rape theme.

I wouldn't want to play in an evil campaign where the goal was rape, but I wouldn't mind playing in a good campaign where the goal was to stop the Knights. Or, as I think one of your posts suggested, the party could be lower ranking members and believe they're rescuing women who are being held captive by the Knights of the Virgin, until they discover that their superiors have tricked them into kidnapping women so that they can rape them. And then the party works to redeem themselves by taking down the Knights of the Scarlet Woman.

Rape alone doesn't seem like a goal for an evil organization, and I don't buy the leaders of this organization being true believers, but if the leaders are servants of the demons you mentioned, I can buy that the demons are getting something out of it. Maybe they're feeding off of the evil acts of the humans, or maybe they're raping too, creating an army of half-demons or something.

But be clear that the rapists are the bad guys. I don't think you'll get many players if you make it sound like you think rape is ok.

Elf Witch said:

And after a flurry of emails one summed it up nicely after I looked at the OP age. "Oh that explains so much"

It seems that you are dealing with the age old view of woman as either saints or sinners.

And there is no liberation going on here at all. Why because you are letting men decide when and how woman should express their own sexuality.

These group of knights don't care about woman at all. They sound like a bunch of spoiled frat boys who want their cake and eat it too. They want to get to have as much sex as they want without any responsibilities. Tell me what is the plan for taking care of any children born from these encounters?

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Let me start out by saying that many responders to this thread seem to take this too seriously, instead of in the spirit of humor and light-heartedness in which it was meant.

The women in this organization have full sexual freedom, they just can't choose to be chaste.

As far as the children, I am working on a spell to prevent pregnancies and to safely abort a fetus if necessary in the Birth Control and D&D thread.