TORMENT - Tides of Numenera

As Morrus has already noted "up front," there is a new CRPG touted on Kickstarter. Seems to have exceeded its goal in just about a day ... and still growing at a rapid pace.

I'm wondering how many of you couldn't resist funding this?

I know I couldn't -- lots of good memories of Torment. I just hope my spouse doesn't notice that big hit in April! Time to start making a bit more $$ to pay that coming charge.

Am I the only one to think they are ripping off WotC IP (trans: stealing) to promote a computer RPG like any other?
If I promised to deliver a new 'X-Wing-like' video game set in a universe 'similar' to the SW Galaxy and with 'nods' to the Trilogy, I bet Disney attorneys would rip me alive in 5 minutes....
Why is it legit because we are talking about WotC vs. Monte Cook et al.?

Re: PLANESCAPE - Tides of Numenera

Not to mention that Monte Cook doesn't own the trademarks for PLANESCAPE. Sad thing is I don"t think he needs to try to hitch his horse to that post to get exposure. The majority of the target demo (that being crp gamers) would not know what "Planescape" is... they are looking for the next WoW, Diablo, FF, etc.

In all this is making Monte Cook seem like a talentless hack who lacks confidence in his own setting to the point that he needs to try go steal try to steal product exposure from a more established brand.

-Sent via a cybernetic device.

Let's pull back the hostility and hyperbole in his thread, please folks. You don't have to be a fan of Monte Cook, but he's a member here. Let's not call him names.

The 'brand' is Monte Cook, who was heavily instrumental in Planescape. It is very much reasonable and common practice to cite your previous work when promoting new projects. This is the standard for the movie industry, gaming industry, books/novels, TV, everything.

Are you really suggesting that a new Whedon project shouldn't be promoted as being by the creator of Buffy, or that a movie poster shouldn't refer to the Academy Awards of its stars?

Don't be silly now. Monte was a large part of Planescape, and it's perfectly legal, common practice, normal, and reasonable that he refer to his previous work.

Let's keep our manners, please.

Relique du Madde said:

The majority of the target demo (that being crp gamers) would not know what "Planescape" is... they are looking for the next WoW, Diablo, FF, etc.

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Huh? The target demographic for this game is precisely those CRPGers who know what Planescape: Torment is, and therefore necessarily know about Planescape. That is practically the pitch. (And as the Kickstarter project that has reached a million dollars fastest, apparently a very successful one.)

The twist has been to raise its tent not around the setting, but around the thematic elements. The branding has been very careful, defining the game and potential series around "Torment", which obviously has a lower bar for IP issues than Planescape, and at least in the US they have staked their legal claim on that name. And at the same time having enough people involved with PS:T to fairly cite that work as often as possible. The devs also went to WotC first, but considering that fell through, I think their solution is fairly savvy.

I contributed.

(I do wonder about some of the timeline details. Monte left WotC in April 2012, Fargo applied for the Torment mark in May, and Monte announced Numenera in August. It can't be taken for granted that there were discussions for putting a new Torment in Numenera, especially before it was known if Numenera would be successfully Kickstarted, but all the players know each other personally. Especially interesting if attempts for new Planescape licensing were known to Monte while he was at WotC. An idle conversation between the right people could set them down the path we observe, even if just in a contributory way.)

Relique du Madde said:

Not to mention that Monte Cook doesn't own the trademarks for PLANESCAPE. Sad thing is I don"t think he needs to try to hitch his horse to that post to get exposure. The majority of the target demo (that being crp gamers) would not know what "Planescape" is... they are looking for the next WoW, Diablo, FF, etc.

In all this is making Monte Cook seem like a talentless hack who lacks confidence in his own setting to the point that he needs to try go steal try to steal product exposure from a more established brand.

-Sent via a cybernetic device.

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There are like...eight things wrong with this post.

Also, I have some real issues with the title of this thread. The project's name is Torment: Tides of Numenera. I'm not sure why Roland55 made the thread's title what it is (Planescape: Tides of Numenera makes about as much sense as Star Wars: Star Trek into Darkness), but it really ought to be changed. The game is being promoted as "in the tradition of Planescape: Torment" but nothing more than that. Hell, Project Eternity name-dropped Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment. Anyone crapping on inXile for referencing another notable CRPG needs to dial it back; you're writing checks your nerd cred can't cash.

The thread's title is going to cause a lot of confusion, and has clearly already contributed to some knee-jerk, ignorant reactions from people who aren't familiar with the project or the team behind it.

On a happier note, Torment hit the $1 million mark faster than any other project in Kickstarter history. This thing is going to be a funding monster a month from now.

Or it will be pulled off for Patent infringment.
Sorry but I can't feel happy about a project which so heavily depends on the work that the same people were paid to do years ago for a different company on a trademarked concept to even use an almost identical name. It just hurts my imprenditorial mind and feels wrong.
and they don't just refer to the fact that thye worked for P:T, they sell their product by comparimg the new Torment to the old Torment (that is the core of their selling proposition and the only reason why of their product).
The sad thing is that I don't believe a CRPG based on Numenera needs this: it would have been founded even without these claims.

dracomilan said:

Or it will be pulled off for Patent infringment.

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Yeah, no.

First, this has nothing to do with patents.

Second, the IP area one might actually be concerned about (trademarks) is covered - inXile has had the Torment mark registered for quite some time now. I'm not a lawyer, but I understand this to mean that they are on pretty solid legal ground.

Sorry but I can't feel happy about a project which so heavily depends on the work that the same people were paid to do years ago for a different company on a trademarked concept to even use an almost identical name. It just hurts my imprenditorial mind and feels wrong.

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That "different company" was Black Isle Studios, which Interplay closed years ago. It doesn't depend on that work in any respect. They are not reusing assets. They are not reusing the setting. They are not even using the same engine. It depends on the minds of many of the same people, and that's fine, because a closed studio does not own the minds of its former employees.

Also, the name is not "almost identical" to Planescape: Torment's. They share one word. By that logic, either Call of Duty or Call of Juarez is illegitimate, because they share a word in their name.

and they don't just refer to the fact that thye worked for P:T, they sell their product by comparimg the new Torment to the old Torment (that is the core of their selling proposition and the only reason why of their product).

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So?

The sad thing is that I don't believe a CRPG based on Numenera needs this: it would have been founded even without these claims.

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It wouldn't have received as much funding as it will.

dracomilan said:

The sad thing is that I don't believe a CRPG based on Numenera needs this: it would have been founded even without these claims.

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Of all the odd things said in this thread that one I find the oddest. Without this project I would never even have heard about Numenera.