Taking a side with a jerk

Ever been in a discussion, (in the Real World, in a face-to-face situation), where the "side" you agree with has an advocate who is just being a total jerk? You want to participate, and state your view of the topic, but to do so will essentially put you on the same side as someone you find completely repugnant?

What do you do? Enter the discussion with your opinion and ignore the jerk? Stay out of the discussion all together to avoid being related with the jerk? "Join" the other side just to oppose the jerk? Something else?

Are you a good debater in person?

Bullgrit

Hmmm... I wonder who or what you're referring to.

Taking the side of a jerk

Bullgrit, please assure me this has nothing to do with anybody here.

This is a completely self-contained topic. We can limit this concept to real world, real life, in person discussions.

Bullgrit

In unbalanced situations, I tend to fill in the void.

So if the jerk has valid points, I may restate and tone down the rhetoric to identify the points that both parties should be able to agree on if there wasn't the ridiculous hyperbole and crap going on.

Though I have a feeling I know what this is about, I'll take your word that it isn't and respond accordingly (as the topic does interest me) :

Bullgrit said:

Ever been in a discussion, (in the Real World, in a face-to-face situation), where the "side" you agree with has an advocate who is just being a total jerk? You want to participate, and state your view of the topic, but to do so will essentially put you on the same side as someone you find completely repugnant?

Click to expand...

Yup, I have. Probably everyone has. Hell, if you're even a li'l Republican you've undoubtably wound up on the same side of an issue as someone who's potentially clinically insane. It happens.

Being on the same side as someone doesn't mean you support the way they make their point. It doesn't say anything negative about you so long as you don't support the behavior. Make your point and make it your own - that way people won't think your support for the position is also support for the person.

What do you do? Enter the discussion with your opinion and ignore the jerk? Stay out of the discussion all together to avoid being related with the jerk? "Join" the other side just to oppose the jerk? Something else?

Click to expand...

I enter the discussion and make sure to frame my argument in a way to make sure it's understood that it's my own. I'd never join the other side just to shut someone I agree with but don't like how they present themselves up. The truth is more important than your comfort, no? Hell, you can even go so far as to say something like 'Opie Thomas Timmons may be coming off a bit aggressively but he does have a point, you see' and then explain where you think he's right but in a way you're comfortable with. There's no reason to compromise yourself just to make sure you're not associated with a sociopath.

Are you a good debater in person?

Bullgrit

Click to expand...

Excellent, actually, and even more decisive, vicious, and sneakily insulting. Er, when I want to be. Typically I debate friends or whatever and they know my crap so I have to actually be on my game. It's fun - especially when hammered. Oh, and I don't do Devil's Advocate. Not my style.

Zombie_Babies said:

Being on the same side as someone doesn't mean you support the way they make their point. It doesn't say anything negative about you so long as you don't support the behavior. Make your point and make it your own - that way people won't think your support for the position is also support for the person.

Click to expand...

I once almost lost a friend because I was on the opposite of a discussion from him, "teamed up" with an obnoxious jerk. The discussion was about "good restaurants," (of all pointless things), and the guy who agreed with me chose to belittle and insult my friend's choices. The jerk was just an acquaintance of ours, and I thought my friend and I were tight enough that he knew I wouldn't side against him like the jerk was doing. My friend was bothered for many days until a third friend told me he was mad. We made up, and we both agreed to hate the jerk

Bullgrit

Bullgrit said:

I once almost lost a friend because I was on the opposite of a discussion from him, "teamed up" with an obnoxious jerk. The discussion was about "good restaurants," (of all pointless things), and the guy who agreed with me chose to belittle and insult my friend's choices. The jerk was just an acquaintance of ours, and I thought my friend and I were tight enough that he knew I wouldn't side against him like the jerk was doing. My friend was bothered for many days until a third friend told me he was mad. We made up, and we both agreed to hate the jerk

Bullgrit

Click to expand...

That's amazing to me. I've never had a friend get angry with me for disagreeing with them even if I'm acting like an idiot (which, since I do argue when drinking (I try not to but a couple of pals like to drag me into it) sometimes happens). I dunno, to us disagreement, argument and even downright battles aren't a big deal. We know where things stand.

What matters, though, is that you worked it out. I had questioned what type of friend this may have been. Turns out, the answer is a damned good one. I wouldn't let that situation deter you from speaking your mind, though. I think it does bring up an important point, though: After a discussion like this it's a good idea to talk to the reasonable person you were arguing with and explain that though you don't agree with them you disagree even more vehemently with the way the other person chose to treat them. Excellent lesson learned, I'd say. Thanks for sharing. It's something I'm gonna try to keep in mind.

Bullgrit said:

Ever been in a discussion, (in the Real World, in a face-to-face situation), where the "side" you agree with has an advocate who is just being a total jerk? You want to participate, and state your view of the topic, but to do so will essentially put you on the same side as someone you find completely repugnant?

Click to expand...

This doesn't look like an thinly-veiled insult, not at all.

But, hey, I'll bite.

What do you do? Enter the discussion with your opinion and ignore the jerk? Stay out of the discussion all together to avoid being related with the jerk? "Join" the other side just to oppose the jerk? Something else?

Click to expand...

The person's jerkness is entirely irrelevant to whether or not they're correct.

What I view as more frustrating is when someone on my side is using terrible arguments and generally making a fool of both themselves and anyone associated with them. Or, basically, when someone manages to be on my side, but still manage to be wrong despite that.

Are you a good debater in person?

Click to expand...

Yes, when I choose to be. However, I'm just as likely to decide that my opponents aren't worth being taken seriously.

Zombie_Babies said:

That's amazing to me. I've never had a friend get angry with me for disagreeing with them even if I'm acting like an idiot (which, since I do argue when drinking (I try not to but a couple of pals like to drag me into it) sometimes happens). I dunno, to us disagreement, argument and even downright battles aren't a big deal. We know where things stand.

What matters, though, is that you worked it out. I had questioned what type of friend this may have been. Turns out, the answer is a damned good one. I wouldn't let that situation deter you from speaking your mind, though. I think it does bring up an important point, though: After a discussion like this it's a good idea to talk to the reasonable person you were arguing with and explain that though you don't agree with them you disagree even more vehemently with the way the other person chose to treat them. Excellent lesson learned, I'd say. Thanks for sharing. It's something I'm gonna try to keep in mind.

Click to expand...

There are some people, like my wife, who really hates debating things. Since I have friends who like to debate things, this can be seen as a negative attribute on them. Namely, because to non-debaters, they get annoyed that the other person can't just let the matter drop.

For someone like myself, debating can be a trap of trying to get the other person to change/admit something. If I can detect that I'm falling into it early, I'd just as soon wrap it up, rather than irritate the missus.