Need DM help: Skill Challenges, encounters and story transitioning

Jestersama

First Post
Hi everyone,

I'm new here so forgive me if I put this in the wrong place, but I'm looking for assistance in specifics concerning that which is mentioned in the title.

A bit of backstory: I'm making my own campaign at the moment, I'm literally railroading my players (they're on a train, I thought it'd be funny). I'm going to set it up as a basic train heist that leads into a supernatural horror story in the vein of H.P. Lovecraft.

Skillchallenges: I'm looking at doing three. The first I want is an introductory one (since some of my players have never done an SC). I was thinking of doing it as an escape from a locked and pitch black baggage car after which they need to blend in wi th h the rest of the passengers. The second is a train top chase of a hooded figure leading to the engine car (I can't think of how to keep them from just doing athletics/Acrobatics checks and have it story oriebted, maybe have the hood do something each round then have the player do an ath/acro check at the end of their turn?) The final is a mad attempt at stopping the now runaway train before it crashes into things or derails or something.

Issue I'm having as mentioned after Challenge Idea ##2 is that I don't know how to allow And force them to be creative while keeping from being repetitive in the scenarios each player has to face within the challenge.

Encounters: I have 6 encounters (plus a dragon fight before the final skill challenge) the go between. They range from easy-hard. A couple minion swarms and a mini-boss. Do you think I should expand to a few more encounters?

Story: I don't quite know how to transition from a basic burglary (they're not the burglars btw) into a supernatural horror without letting them realize fully what's going on. The hooded figure previously mentioned is going to be a magic user. Maybe have the mini-boss give 'birth' to a gibbering horror post fight which then escapes? I dunno.

I'm going to have 6-7 players in case that info is needed.

Sorry for the length of this post and any spelling errors. If you need any additional info please ask.

Thank you in advance for any assistance yout can provide.
 

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Skillchallenges: I'm looking at doing three. The first I want is an introductory one (since some of my players have never done an SC). I was thinking of doing it as an escape from a locked and pitch black baggage car after which they need to blend in wi th h the rest of the passengers. The second is a train top chase of a hooded figure leading to the engine car (I can't think of how to keep them from just doing athletics/Acrobatics checks and have it story oriebted, maybe have the hood do something each round then have the player do an ath/acro check at the end of their turn?) The final is a mad attempt at stopping the now runaway train before it crashes into things or derails or something.

Issue I'm having as mentioned after Challenge Idea ##2 is that I don't know how to allow And force them to be creative while keeping from being repetitive in the scenarios each player has to face within the challenge.

If I may, check out this post and thread, this thread, and this thread. The first post I linked should be quite helpful. I would recommend getting DMG2 if you do not already have SS
TLDR advice I could give would be:

1) Always escalate and drive play toward conflict. Keep the heat on, the play dynamic, and the pace electric. Scenes should have rising action, falling action, climax, and denouement.

2) Make them feel the emotionally provocative weight of choice and have failure feed back into more exciting stuff. When they succeed, come up with new, exciting adversity.

3) Make sure you understand their intent for each action declaration and what is at stake. Have the fiction follow that and ensure that new, dynamic, genre-relevant stuff keeps happening until the final win/loss condition has been met and the scene resolves itself. Interpret resolution not just based on process but on player intent, the stakes, and the dramatic tropes inherent to the scene.

4) Don't be afraid of decoupling an outcome of a check from a binary pass/fail interpretation. Consider 3 above. Think of challenges that interpose themselves between heroes and their goals in classic genre tropes. Train chase? On top of the cars and trying to advance? Maybe a failed Acro check means they're shunted off, hanging by an arm and they have to climb up or be assisted by another PC. Orrrrr, maybe the complication is the car has been unlatched and the foe has flipped the switch for the tracks after his cab has gone through. If they don't make a ranged attack, or manipulate the trigger at range somehow, they'll be on the wrong tracks and the foe will be long gone. Orrrr maybe the foe sabotaged the machinery and it needs to be addressed/repaired immediately or a deadly crash is in the cards. Orrrr maybe the PC has a vision of an ill omen and must interpret it. It might be a missive from their god or primal spirits. Orrrr maybe a brutal change in weather and a primal PC can try to use it to foil the enemy's escape (binding winds or driving rain).
 

Jestersama

First Post
Ah dude this is awesome! I hadn't even considered decoupling the train or environmental effects! I'm gonna check out those threads you linked me to as well. Thanks so much!
 

MarkB

Legend
My suggestion for introducing players to a skill challenge would be to present them with a situation they need to deal with, suggest that they see what skills they're good at and try to think of creative uses for them, run the mechanics of the encounter fairly loosely and entirely behind the curtain, and then after it's all resolved, say to them "Well, that was a skill challenge."

Make it feel like just part of the general action-resolution mechanics of the system, rather than a Thing in its own right - that way, you'll hopefully be able to encourage players to engage with the situation during a skill challenge, rather than getting hung up on the maths and just trying to boost their numbers.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Hi everyone,

I'm new here so forgive me if I put this in the wrong place, but I'm looking for assistance in specifics concerning that which is mentioned in the title.
Welcome to ENWorld :) You got some great advice from above, definitely check out those links that [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] gave you. Rather than offer general advice (since you already got some great general advice), I'll look at your specific scenario and give my recommendations.

First question: You said 6-7 players, but what level?

A bit of backstory: I'm making my own campaign at the moment, I'm literally railroading my players (they're on a train, I thought it'd be funny). I'm going to set it up as a basic train heist that leads into a supernatural horror story in the vein of H.P. Lovecraft.
There's a RAILROAD and then there's a railroad ;) What I mean is, even if the adventure is mostly linear, you can have PC decisions effect/change subsequente counters, you can have NPCs take surprising actions, you can have scripted terrain effects that relate to specific consequences of encounters that give the illusion of a more open world, and you can let there be multiple possible end states to the adventure. 

Skill challenges: I'm looking at doing three.
I'll look at each one of these in detail. Overall, I'm thinking a complexity I or II challenge for each seems appropriate. For the latest skill challenge rules from Rules Compendium (plus general awesomeness) check out my 4e DM cheat sheet: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?307923-4e-DM-Cheat-Sheet

1. Escape from the Locked Baggage Car
If the wizard can cast Knock or the rogue can pick a lock and the scene is over, then that's not a challenge, that's a skill check at most. The darkness should just be an environmental condition, not a real factor in the challenge, since it's a cinch for PCs to see in darkness or create light.

What you need in this scene is more going on, like a looming threat ("it's filling with quicksand!" or "we've been poisoned!" or "you hear the Tiefling With No Name trying to decouple the baggage car from the rest of the train!"). THAT will compel them to spring to action. To heighten the tension you might want to have them tied up to begin with, or have them manacled in pairs if the more mercenary types need a reason to stay with the group (it works in the movies!).

You don't need to plan our specific skill used, just outline general strategies available to the PCs and whether they should deviate from a moderate Difficulty. For example: Getting Untied, Slowing Down the Looming Threat, Avoiding Dangerous Baggage, Unlocking the Door, Physically Forcing the Heavy Door Open. Say "Yes" to their zany ideas or creative skill uses. Don't limit them to only skill uses! Generally encounter or daily power uses that make sense should be an auto-success IMO. Roll with whatever they come up with.

Depending on if you want blending in with the passengers to involve getting to know NPCs in a significant way or just using it for color, I would either make that part it's own challenge or incorporate it into this challenge, respectively.

The point of a skill challenge is that there is always a meaningful risk of failure as well as potential for success. What happens if the PCs fail? You need to answer that question for each of these challenges.

Here, if they fail, it probably shouldn't mean they stay locked in the baggage car because that's no fun. Instead, you can have the Looming Threat occur before they escape, so they begin to suffocate (losing healing surges), the effects of the poison kick in, or they leap into the passenger car as the baggage car decouples (along with most of their gear!) and they have to explain themselves to the stunned passengers. If they succeed, then they escape before the Looming Threat and have an opportunity to prevent it entirely (e.g. whip together an antitoxin from materials on the train's bar) or use it to their advantage (e.g. interrogating the Tiefling With No Name)

If they fail to blend in with the passengers what happens? Maybe a conductor or sheriff tries to detain them, authorities on the train turn against them, or the villains become aware of the PCs and go to greater lengths to hide themselves (perhaps pretending to be passengers helping the PCs when really screwing them over?). If they succeed, maybe they overhear useful information, make a useful NPC contact like the conductor, or figure out where the villains are on the train and have the opportunity to ambush them.

Note: I think Action Points should have unique uses in skill challenges, it's just my personal philosophy. I would let PCs in this scene spend Action Points if they're stumped about what to do, so you would then rattle off some potential strategies to escape, and maybe provide an example of one of that PC's skills or abilities that would apply.

2. Train Top Chase
[sblock=caveat]With your set up it sounds as if the hooded figure slips into the engine car despite the PCs best efforts to chase them and make the train go out of control, suddenly meaning the PCs now have to stop the train...is that right? I would not do it this way, because it feels cheap to players when they're rolling dice that don't really matter (i.e. you planned for villain to do X no matter what. Instead, have them get to the engine room just after it has been sabotaged and see the hooded figure slip out through the roof access. 

So skill challenges 2 and 3 would happen simultaneously.

NOW they have a choice: Do they all save the train? Do they all go after the hooded figure? Or, more likely, how do they split the party to accomplish both tasks? I would make them two separate but connected complexity 1 or 2 challenges. Just my two coppers.[/sblock]

In this challenge, successes and failures accrue for individual PCs not the entire group collectively; keep track for each player, or have them keep track (making the rules a bit more transparent so they can understand them better). 

Outline whatever 3 main obstacles you foresee the PCs encountering in this challenge, such as: (1) Going thru the tunnel, (2) Wind/dust storm or some hazard created by fleeing hooded figure, (3) Unexpected violent movement as train car decouples, switches tracks, or wheels spin out of control fast. Also come up with a few backup obstacles for PCs who take unusual routes, such as going thru the interior of the train, or just weird stuff that you think might be cool or useful to challenge the PCs.

Those are the three obstacles each pursuing PC needs to overcome to reach the hooded figure. Let them come up with their own strategies, you just need to adjudicate what the appropriate roll (if any) & Difficulty is. 
For example, "A dark tunnel is fast approaching, and you see the hooded figure drop flat, you only have a few seconds before the tunnel is upon you, what do you do?" "I drop flat like a pancake!" "Ok, you can drop prone no problem, but make a (moderate DC) Athletics check to hang on to the train so you don't slip backwards." Alternately, "OK, you can drop prone no problem, but make a (hard DC) Perception check to keep an eye on the hooded figure and see what he does in the tunnel."
A PC who fails a check suffers a logical impact from that obstacle, such as getting THWACKED hard against the side of the tunnel or tumbling to the side of the train car and hanging onto the edge for dear life. 

The 4th and final check should be an attack of some kind to subdue the hooded figure, such as a thunderwave spell, a thrown weapon, a grapple tackle, etc. Let the player whose player makes it this far choose what they use. If they succeed, see below. If they fail, feel free to introduce another complication.

What happens if a PC fails this challenge? That PC should fall out of the chase in a dramatic way, though preferably keep them on the train. For example: looking like they fall under its wheels of steel only to be clinging on for dear life under the train and none of their companions can hear them over the sound of its grinding gears. If none of the PCs catch the hooded figure he might enact further mischief, or he might simply get away to reappear in a later adventure perhaps?

What happens if a PC catches the hooded figure? Well, they caught him! I would make him either a non-combatant or make him surrender right away realizing he is outmatched. Let them pump him for information like PCs love to do. His information should also include a way to stop the Out of Control Train.

3. Out of Control Train
Somehow the train has gone out of control, the conductor is incapacitated and it's up to the PCs to prevent disaster. Since this is an inevitable part of your story, soon at least as you've presented it, do NOT give the players the false hope of being able to stop it before it happens. Just make it happen, or let them witness it as a logical consequence of something else, or thru a force field they can't effect, or whatever story device you come up with. If you want them to have some dread, realizing what's going to happen before it does, it should be of the "Oh no! We're too late!" variety as they dispatch the gloating villain ;)

The key here is outlining meaningful strategies and clueing players into them via your narrative. For example: Activating Magic Brakes, Repairing the Steering System, Extinguishing Engine Fire, Recruiting Help from Engine Gnomes, Keeping Loose Wheel From Falling Off, Switching Tracks, Evacuating the Train (as a last resort), etc. Again, let the players come up with their specific solutions, and adjudicate on the fly; no need for you to plan specific skill uses out in advance (you've got better things to do as DM!).

You'll also want three levels of increasing consequences for failure, ratcheting the tension and making it clear that at 3 failures (or whatever you litmus is) the train WILL crash. Roughly speaking the failures should be: (1) Mostly thematic and foreboding, but not making things harder, (2) Dramatically changing the situation, such as completely cutting off one option or adding a second hazard, (3) The Crash itself.

You also want these failures to make logical sense based on what the PC was trying to accomplish with their check. For example, a PC who fails to recruit help from engine gnomes (on the group's 1st failure), might see the gnomes bail from the train, (on the group's second failure) have the gnomes spread panic among the passengers and initiate Evacuating the Train themselves, (on the group's 3rd failure) the gnomes can't control it and realize the engine room is going to explode, warning the PCs to get clear, and in the Crash the gnomes die in a fiery explosion.

Encounters: I have 6 encounters (plus a dragon fight before the final skill challenge) the go between. They range from easy-hard. A couple minion swarms and a mini-boss. Do you think I should expand to a few more encounters?
No, 6 is plenty, and with all that's happening you might get by with 3-5. Overall, the setup you have of small skill challenges separated by encounters works great in 4e. 

You can list the encounters and we can give further thoughts on tying them to the skill challenges if you want.

Story: I don't quite know how to transition from a basic burglary (they're not the burglars btw) into a supernatural horror without letting them realize fully what's going on. The hooded figure previously mentioned is going to be a magic user. Maybe have the mini-boss give 'birth' to a gibbering horror post fight which then escapes? I dunno.
When you say without letting them fully realize what's going on, it suggests to me you are talking about more mystery than horror? But you'll need to share more about your scenario before I can help. Specifically, *what* is it you are trying to keep the players from realizing too quickly and want to slowly reveal?
 

Jestersama

First Post
Welcome to ENWorld :) You got some great advice from above, definitely check out those links that gave you. Rather than offer general advice (since you already got some great general advice), I'll look at your specific scenario and give my recommendations.

First question: You said 6-7 players, but what level?


There's a RAILROAD and then there's a railroad ;) What I mean is, even if the adventure is mostly linear, you can have PC decisions effect/change subsequente counters, you can have NPCs take surprising actions, you can have scripted terrain effects that relate to specific consequences of encounters that give the illusion of a more open world, and you can let there be multiple possible end states to the adventure.


I'll look at each one of these in detail. Overall, I'm thinking a complexity I or II challenge for each seems appropriate. For the latest skill challenge rules from Rules Compendium (plus general awesomeness) check out my 4e DM cheat sheet:

1. Escape from the Locked Baggage Car
If the wizard can cast Knock or the rogue can pick a lock and the scene is over, then that's not a challenge, that's a skill check at most. The darkness should just be an environmental condition, not a real factor in the challenge, since it's a cinch for PCs to see in darkness or create light.

What you need in this scene is more going on, like a looming threat ("it's filling with quicksand!" or "we've been poisoned!" or "you hear the Tiefling With No Name trying to decouple the baggage car from the rest of the train!"). THAT will compel them to spring to action. To heighten the tension you might want to have them tied up to begin with, or have them manacled in pairs if the more mercenary types need a reason to stay with the group (it works in the movies!).

You don't need to plan our specific skill used, just outline general strategies available to the PCs and whether they should deviate from a moderate Difficulty. For example: Getting Untied, Slowing Down the Looming Threat, Avoiding Dangerous Baggage, Unlocking the Door, Physically Forcing the Heavy Door Open. Say "Yes" to their zany ideas or creative skill uses. Don't limit them to only skill uses! Generally encounter or daily power uses that make sense should be an auto-success IMO. Roll with whatever they come up with.

Depending on if you want blending in with the passengers to involve getting to know NPCs in a significant way or just using it for color, I would either make that part it's own challenge or incorporate it into this challenge, respectively.

The point of a skill challenge is that there is always a meaningful risk of failure as well as potential for success. What happens if the PCs fail? You need to answer that question for each of these challenges.

Here, if they fail, it probably shouldn't mean they stay locked in the baggage car because that's no fun. Instead, you can have the Looming Threat occur before they escape, so they begin to suffocate (losing healing surges), the effects of the poison kick in, or they leap into the passenger car as the baggage car decouples (along with most of their gear!) and they have to explain themselves to the stunned passengers. If they succeed, then they escape before the Looming Threat and have an opportunity to prevent it entirely (e.g. whip together an antitoxin from materials on the train's bar) or use it to their advantage (e.g. interrogating the Tiefling With No Name)

If they fail to blend in with the passengers what happens? Maybe a conductor or sheriff tries to detain them, authorities on the train turn against them, or the villains become aware of the PCs and go to greater lengths to hide themselves (perhaps pretending to be passengers helping the PCs when really screwing them over?). If they succeed, maybe they overhear useful information, make a useful NPC contact like the conductor, or figure out where the villains are on the train and have the opportunity to ambush them.

Note: I think Action Points should have unique uses in skill challenges, it's just my personal philosophy. I would let PCs in this scene spend Action Points if they're stumped about what to do, so you would then rattle off some potential strategies to escape, and maybe provide an example of one of that PC's skills or abilities that would apply.

2. Train Top Chase
[sblock=caveat]With your set up it sounds as if the hooded figure slips into the engine car despite the PCs best efforts to chase them and make the train go out of control, suddenly meaning the PCs now have to stop the train...is that right? I would not do it this way, because it feels cheap to players when they're rolling dice that don't really matter (i.e. you planned for villain to do X no matter what. Instead, have them get to the engine room just after it has been sabotaged and see the hooded figure slip out through the roof access.

So skill challenges 2 and 3 would happen simultaneously.

NOW they have a choice: Do they all save the train? Do they all go after the hooded figure? Or, more likely, how do they split the party to accomplish both tasks? I would make them two separate but connected complexity 1 or 2 challenges. Just my two coppers.[/sblock]

In this challenge, successes and failures accrue for individual PCs not the entire group collectively; keep track for each player, or have them keep track (making the rules a bit more transparent so they can understand them better).

Outline whatever 3 main obstacles you foresee the PCs encountering in this challenge, such as: (1) Going thru the tunnel, (2) Wind/dust storm or some hazard created by fleeing hooded figure, (3) Unexpected violent movement as train car decouples, switches tracks, or wheels spin out of control fast. Also come up with a few backup obstacles for PCs who take unusual routes, such as going thru the interior of the train, or just weird stuff that you think might be cool or useful to challenge the PCs.

Those are the three obstacles each pursuing PC needs to overcome to reach the hooded figure. Let them come up with their own strategies, you just need to adjudicate what the appropriate roll (if any) & Difficulty is.
For example, "A dark tunnel is fast approaching, and you see the hooded figure drop flat, you only have a few seconds before the tunnel is upon you, what do you do?" "I drop flat like a pancake!" "Ok, you can drop prone no problem, but make a (moderate DC) Athletics check to hang on to the train so you don't slip backwards." Alternately, "OK, you can drop prone no problem, but make a (hard DC) Perception check to keep an eye on the hooded figure and see what he does in the tunnel."
A PC who fails a check suffers a logical impact from that obstacle, such as getting THWACKED hard against the side of the tunnel or tumbling to the side of the train car and hanging onto the edge for dear life.

The 4th and final check should be an attack of some kind to subdue the hooded figure, such as a thunderwave spell, a thrown weapon, a grapple tackle, etc. Let the player whose player makes it this far choose what they use. If they succeed, see below. If they fail, feel free to introduce another complication.

What happens if a PC fails this challenge? That PC should fall out of the chase in a dramatic way, though preferably keep them on the train. For example: looking like they fall under its wheels of steel only to be clinging on for dear life under the train and none of their companions can hear them over the sound of its grinding gears. If none of the PCs catch the hooded figure he might enact further mischief, or he might simply get away to reappear in a later adventure perhaps?

What happens if a PC catches the hooded figure? Well, they caught him! I would make him either a non-combatant or make him surrender right away realizing he is outmatched. Let them pump him for information like PCs love to do. His information should also include a way to stop the Out of Control Train.

3. Out of Control Train
Somehow the train has gone out of control, the conductor is incapacitated and it's up to the PCs to prevent disaster. Since this is an inevitable part of your story, soon at least as you've presented it, do NOT give the players the false hope of being able to stop it before it happens. Just make it happen, or let them witness it as a logical consequence of something else, or thru a force field they can't effect, or whatever story device you come up with. If you want them to have some dread, realizing what's going to happen before it does, it should be of the "Oh no! We're too late!" variety as they dispatch the gloating villain ;)

The key here is outlining meaningful strategies and clueing players into them via your narrative. For example: Activating Magic Brakes, Repairing the Steering System, Extinguishing Engine Fire, Recruiting Help from Engine Gnomes, Keeping Loose Wheel From Falling Off, Switching Tracks, Evacuating the Train (as a last resort), etc. Again, let the players come up with their specific solutions, and adjudicate on the fly; no need for you to plan specific skill uses out in advance (you've got better things to do as DM!).

You'll also want three levels of increasing consequences for failure, ratcheting the tension and making it clear that at 3 failures (or whatever you litmus is) the train WILL crash. Roughly speaking the failures should be: (1) Mostly thematic and foreboding, but not making things harder, (2) Dramatically changing the situation, such as completely cutting off one option or adding a second hazard, (3) The Crash itself.

You also want these failures to make logical sense based on what the PC was trying to accomplish with their check. For example, a PC who fails to recruit help from engine gnomes (on the group's 1st failure), might see the gnomes bail from the train, (on the group's second failure) have the gnomes spread panic among the passengers and initiate Evacuating the Train themselves, (on the group's 3rd failure) the gnomes can't control it and realize the engine room is going to explode, warning the PCs to get clear, and in the Crash the gnomes die in a fiery explosion.


No, 6 is plenty, and with all that's happening you might get by with 3-5. Overall, the setup you have of small skill challenges separated by encounters works great in 4e.

You can list the encounters and we can give further thoughts on tying them to the skill challenges if you want.


When you say without letting them fully realize what's going on, it suggests to me you are talking about more mystery than horror? But you'll need to share more about your scenario before I can help. Specifically, *what* is it you are trying to keep the players from realizing too quickly and want to slowly reveal?

I'll list my encounters in a separate post (since I think it would get super crowded and confused in this one if I didn't.

I love you suggestions, especially how to join the final two SC. Now you said easy (1 or 2) for each player, you mean each player has to make, say, 4 successes before 3 failures? Rather than the entire group only needing 4 successes?

I'm thinking of doing a Lovecraft mystery. (If you've ever read any of his stories; if not check out Shadow over Innsmouth, The Dunwich Horror or Rats in the Walls) It's setup as a horror, lots of weird scary crap going on, but you never know what it is exactly until the end (the forces at play, etc. (most notable in Shadow Over Innsmouth)) The main issue is they're all my friends and they know I love HP Lovecraft and I don't want to throw one thing at them and be like "OH I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON! Let me go check my Lovecraft book!"

That kinda takes the fun out of it for me getting to watch them piece things together as we play and adventure.

Another thing: because they're on a train, how might I include obtaining some magical items? I know my paladin player worships the Raven Queen (awesome btw, such a cool idea) so perhaps have some minor divine intervention so they can disrupt world ending evils or whatever?

The group is starting at Lv 1. I'm scaling back encounters and stuff so it's easy for them for now, but I fully intend ramping it up quickly.

Also, rather than go on some mystical quest at the end of the train adventure, I was going to have them explore a decaying, shunned port town that directly ties into the Lovecraft elements (Shadow over Innsmouth; lots of GREAT descriptions in there, smells, appearance of denizens etc).

I did want a dragon battle (cause dragons are cool) maybe have the Hood summon the dragon right before the chase or have the battle before the chase completely and have it lead into the chase?

How could I make the Hood non-combatant? Perhaps make him incorporeal when attacked? Something like a magic hologram?
 

Jestersama

First Post
Encounter 1 ((Entralled Passengers))

10 Duergar Miners (minions)

Basically, canon fodder being thrown at them. Just chose the miners as a template for the NPCs.



Encounter 2 ((Passengers, Minor Lackeys))

4 Thugs (minions)

5 D. Miners (minions)

Similar concept to the first, except now there's some actual baddies! (who possibly hide behind the Passengers)



Encounter 3 ((Couple stronger baddies and some Passengers))

3 Human Ruffian
1 Human Cultist Archer
2 Human Gang Member
5 Duergar Miner

The baddies here aren't minions. Should provide a little more of a challenge (although, maybe it's repetitive to the idea of Encounter 2)



Encounter 4 ((Straight baddies, no Passengers))

3 Human Ruffian
3 Human Cultist Archer

Self - explanatory, I think. -shrug-



Encounter 5 ((HARD Encounter, with some normal baddies))

2 Human Ruffian
1 Human Cultist Archer
1 Rolf, the Butcher (Elite brute)

I wanted to turn the heat up on this one, make em really sweat what they're facing.



Encounter 6 ((Mini Boss))

1 Denva (Elite Soldier)


I figured since there were some strictly minion battles, having the possibility of facing an extremely hard battle against one baddy would be fun (and possibly rewarding, magically?)



Dragon : Young Brass Dragon



I would post links to stats, but I'm not allowed yet. :/








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Quickleaf

Legend
I love you suggestions, especially how to join the final two SC. Now you said easy (1 or 2) for each player, you mean each player has to make, say, 4 successes before 3 failures? Rather than the entire group only needing 4 successes?
Right. The key is to narrate it so that PCs who fail a check fall behind or are moving slower or otherwise express to them that they're still in the chase (at least until 3 failures) but they just lost some ground.

I'm thinking of doing a Lovecraft mystery. (If you've ever read any of his stories; if not check out Shadow over Innsmouth, The Dunwich Horror or Rats in the Walls) It's setup as a horror, lots of weird scary crap going on, but you never know what it is exactly until the end (the forces at play, etc. (most notable in Shadow Over Innsmouth)) The main issue is they're all my friends and they know I love HP Lovecraft and I don't want to throw one thing at them and be like "OH I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON! Let me go check my Lovecraft book!"

That kinda takes the fun out of it for me getting to watch them piece things together as we play and adventure.
My advice is to manipulate their expectations. Heck, drop names from a completely different Lovecraftian story that are either just red herrings or you've reskinned as what you need. Concealing the specifics works quite well this well - players fall for it until they start to catch on to the trick - but I don't recommend trying to conceal the genre this way. They know you're a Cthulu fan, roll with it, don't hide that, but obfuscate what really is going on, giving them metagame clues that make them think "Oh NO! It's Cthulu!"

Another thing: because they're on a train, how might I include obtaining some magical items? I know my paladin player worships the Raven Queen (awesome btw, such a cool idea) so perhaps have some minor divine intervention so they can disrupt world ending evils or whatever?
Awarding magic items in 4e is a bit of a a PITA for the DM. I recommend you adopt the "inherent bonuses" rule from DMG2 (if you use the DDi character program, there's a box players can check to give themselves those bonuses equivalent to a magic item of their corresponding level). It's a numbers fix. This lets you introduce whatever magic items you feel are wondrous and appropriate to the adventuring setting, in this case, perhaps something like villain planted bombs that if the PCs can disarm they can reuse elsewhere? Maybe a few healing potions or scrolls stashed in the Baggage Car? A magic shovel or lamp or horn in the gnomish-run Engine Room?

The group is starting at Lv 1. I'm scaling back encounters and stuff so it's easy for them for now, but I fully intend ramping it up quickly.
Your use of minions in your encounters is smart then. Just beware if the party lacks a controllers, minion fights can become harder than they appear (likewise with a strong controller and all minions on the field at once they can become trivially easy). I recommend having 1 or 2 minions enter on the second round from an unexpected direction.

I did want a dragon battle (cause dragons are cool) maybe have the Hood summon the dragon right before the chase or have the battle before the chase completely and have it lead into the chase?

How could I make the Hood non-combatant? Perhaps make him incorporeal when attacked? Something like a magic hologram?
I think to answer these I need to know more about the Hood NPC. Who is he? Class and level? When mention making him incorporeal or a magic hologram, I immediately think you're trying to turn him into a recurring villain, is that right? In other words, you have them chasing someone you ultimately plan to let escape anyhow?

All I meant by non-combatant is that he wouldn't pose any real threat to them, just use whatever stats for a level 1 monster that you might need (probably defenses), and have him surrender instead of fight.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Another thing: because they're on a train, how might I include obtaining some magical items? I know my paladin player worships the Raven Queen (awesome btw, such a cool idea) so perhaps have some minor divine intervention so they can disrupt world ending evils or whatever?
Just the fact they're on a train breaks the usual D&D world stereotype a little (I guess Eberon has trains powered by lightning or something, IIRC). Are trains historical steam trains in a world where magic is rare, or magical trains in a world where it's common?

In the latter case, well-healed passengers could have magic items just like a well-off person might carry a pocket pistol for protection.

In the former, it's more interesting. You could just flip the inherent bonus switch and limit items to a few, rare/strange/dangerous things as you might expect from the lovecraftian genre. Or, you could make magic items work about like normal, but you only start running into them when you start messing with the mythos. So, Elder Signs are amulets of protection, and magic weapons & armor are enchanted relics you'd only find in archeological digs and the like. Rather than tossing and upgrading such rare items, you could have their powers grow and change as the party encounters more mythos elements, the items 'wake up' or 'charge up' or gain power as the stars approach a certain rare alignment...

...anyway, instead of being on passengers, the items could be in the baggage car, crated up as archeological specimens, or they could be on the hood and his allies.

How could I make the Hood non-combatant? Perhaps make him incorporeal when attacked? Something like a magic hologram?
You could make him a higher-level minion (making him hard to hit and a little painful to fight). But, when you hit him *pop* he's just gone - maybe leaving the hood, damaged by the attack that finally hit, behind. Oh, no, you didn't 'kill' him, he just wasn't all there, maybe you encounter the 'real hood' later - probably you should hope you never do...
 

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