D&D 5E I'd like to know the thinking behind this....

DMZ2112 · Sep 29, 2014

Sailor Moon said:
Oh really?

You got a quote on that because the way I see it, Forgotten Realms is the default setting.

The PHB gives makes references to FR gods and even the various humans from the different areas of the Realms. Hoarde of the Dragon Queen is set in the Forgottem Realms if I am not mistaken.

SilverfireSage said:
While it makes sense that FR is the default setting, there's nothing in the PHB to indicate that. They never strictly make references to only one scenario's Gods, and frequently give examples of various different settings. Dragonlance, for instance, is referenced numerous times, as well as Ravenloft, and the same is true for the Monster Manual.

Thank you, SilverfireSage. Well said.

I know of /many/ quotes on the topic, Sailor Moon, but if you want more than one you can do your Googling yourself. I recommend looking at Mearls' interviews with Morrus and Neuroglyph, his Reddit AMA, and the 2012 Gen Con D&D Keynote, but this one's from Chris Perkins at PAX East 2014:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2014/04/11/secrets-from-the-tyranny-of-dragons/ said:
”The Forgotten Realms is our flagship setting for the new edition, however we are supporting, or will support, all of our key settings in the future.” That includes Ebberon, says Perkins, and “you are going to see more Ravenloft stuff very soon.”

Sailor Moon · Sep 29, 2014

DMZ2112 said:
Thank you, SilverfireSage. Well said.

I know of /many/ quotes on the topic, Sailor Moon, but if you want more than one you can do your Googling yourself. I recommend looking at Mearls' interviews with Morrus and Neuroglyph, his Reddit AMA, and the 2012 Gen Con D&D Keynote, but this one's from Chris Perkins at PAX East 2014:

The flagship part should have been your key right there. Greyhawk has been the flagship of the game for years while still making products for the other settings. Unless you can find me a quote that states it's not, I'm afraid it is.

Sailor Moon · Sep 29, 2014

SilverfireSage said:
Like the adventure? That's essentially the only thing that FR gets over everything else, and that's likely because it's the most well known campaign setting. For instance, under the Knowledge Domain, they list Oghma (FR), Boccob (Greyhawk), Gliean (Dragonlance), Aureon (Eberron), and Thoth (Egyptian). That's a pretty good spread, and nothing specifically FR leaning.

How about you go and post a little something from the human aection if you are going to start posting things? Don't intentionally leave out stuff just to try and make your argument seem sound.

Parmandur · Sep 29, 2014

Well, the PHB goes into detail on Greyhawk, Ebereon and DragonLance literally everywhere; maaaybe slightly more FR stuff, but not significantly. I'd say the default assumed setting is Planescape, based on the PHB and MM.

Parmandur · Sep 29, 2014

Oh, sure, the names in the human section are from the Realms; this appears to be so they can cover any ethnicity of potential players, not because the Realms are the default. The other core races rely more on Greyhawk.

Seethyr · Sep 29, 2014

I agree with the OP but am just not as upset about it. I'm not a tiefling or dragonborn fan but I don't mind a couple pages that I can just ignore. Also, other books will surely have the options everyone wants at some point.

DMZ2112 · Sep 29, 2014

Sailor Moon said:
The flagship part should have been your key right there. Greyhawk has been the flagship of the game for years while still making products for the other settings. Unless you can find me a quote that states it's not, I'm afraid it is.

Flagship does not mean default, by any English definition. A flagship is the first of or among many. A default is a baseline upon which everything else is built. The D&D5 PHB does not assume your world uses the Forgotten Realms as a content pack dependency. Subraces are described in setting polygnostic terms, mentioning gold and Hylar dwarves in the same breath. There are no feats or backgrounds in the book that reference places or organizations of the Realms. The limited setting material included in the book, like the lists of gods in Appendix B, is universal. Appendix E includes the Dragonlance Chronicles and omits everything Ed Greenwood has written for the Realms.

The bias toward the Forgotten Realms you describe simply does not exist.

As for Greyhawk being the flagship setting of D&D... you have a strange view of reality. It was the /default/ setting of D&D3, but considering that they released a whole /two/ Greyhawk-specific sourcebooks in the D&D3 era I am just not sure what your point is.

Greyhawk hasn't been ahead of Forgotten Realms in terms of number of products since AD&D1, and the only reason for that is that Greyhawk /truly was/ the default setting for AD&D1 -- all of the "unbranded" adventures produced for the game were assumed to take place in Greyhawk. The same phenomenon is the only reason why the total number of D&D3 products for Greyhawk even comes close to the number published for the Forgotten Realms -- every adventure and adventure path released for "D&D3" was assumed to be a Greyhawk adventure.

I'd go so far as to say Greyhawk has /never/ received flagship treatment. At best, it has benefited from being the least disruptive to true baseline D&D throughout the game's history.

DMZ2112 · Sep 29, 2014

Sailor Moon said:
How about you go and post a little something from the human aection if you are going to start posting things? Don't intentionally leave out stuff just to try and make your argument seem sound.

I'd totally forgotten about the human ethnicity examples, that's how little they impacted me.

In truth, I would have preferred to see a selection of ethnicities from different settings, but that's a tough order -- other than Greyhawk, what other settings described their ethnicities to this degree? Birthright? Mystara?

aramis erak · Sep 29, 2014

DMZ2112 said:
I'd totally forgotten about the human ethnicity examples, that's how little they impacted me.

In truth, I would have preferred to see a selection of ethnicities from different settings, but that's a tough order -- other than Greyhawk, what other settings described their ethnicities to this degree? Birthright? Mystara?

Definitely Mystara, but then, each of the major human cultures had a whole gazetteer. But none of the Mystara races had tt mods in their Gaz line nor BX/BECMI/Cyclopedia incarnations.

Mallus · Sep 29, 2014

Evenglare said:
Tieflings are put in because they have a dark streak so people want to be edgy or whatever

I think it's pretty simple. Part demon/devil/vampire/evil-spirit-thingie is a popular trope in a lot of fantasy fiction, folklore, and video games, ie in culture.

"Angel mulatto" is less popular. Ergo, Tiefling is in the PHB (but I'm sure Deva/Assimars will show up somewhere).

Also, Elric.