We just ran the season 5 epic last weekend, and I kept my table at the edge of a tpk for about three hours. I normally play without a screen, but was encouraged to use it this time and did. At the end the players all said they had an amazing time and kept going on and on about all their close calls. I took it as a point of pride that my "involvement" wasn't detected. Had I played it straight, they would've been dead inside an hour. Where's the fun in that?
D&D 5E How hard is it to accidentally have a TPK?
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Interestingly, 13th Age (a d20 fantasy game) has this codified into the rules (pg 166 of the core book). The players may always have a hasty and successful retreat, with the bodies of the fallen. In return for the extraordinarily generous retreating rule (that's the phrase form the book), the party suffers a campaign loss. It gives some examples, bt basically it needs to be things that just returning and fighting them again won't undo. The rescue mission they were on ends up with the captive sacrificed, whatever.
Again a direct quote: The point of this rule is to encourage daring attack and to make retreating interesting on the level of story instead of tactics.
Now, that's not for everyone's game, it's definitely more heroic then gritty. But the idea that there is a way out in my experience helps not just the continuity of the game and story, but also from the over-cautious players who will spend two hours opening a door they think is trapped.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I didn't play COS - curious, how could you have a TPK that the players aren't aware of? DM fudging to not kill the story but they should have been dead?
Tony Vargas
Legend
Accidents are usually pretty easy to have.
It's a reasonable thing to watch out for at very low level, but it can sneak up on you at higher level. It just comes with the 'fast combat' territory - in order to make a short encounter challenging and an adequate drain on resources, the enemy has to output some serious damage quickly, if the DM's dice turn hot (and he doesn't keep them behind the screen and fudge them) or player's dice turn cold, it can go south fast.
L
lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
I would hope that TPKs are accidents. I don't think I'd want to play in a game where the DM was planning to kill off the group in an encounter. Doesn't seem to fit the spirit of a group activity. I'm not a fan of the adversarial DM. TPKs do happen though. I've been fortunate that when I'm in the DM position, it hasn't happened. I have killed a PC here and there, though never in malice or through trying to kill them. Sometimes the dice betray you. Sometimes the player just gets confused. Things happen.
Though it's also worth pointing out that just because the party drops, it doesn't necessarily mean they all have to die. There are ways to take the K out of TPK. You can always have the enemy stabilize the party and capture them as prisoners. Taking the group in "for questioning" can actually lead to more adventures. If they get taken out and captured, now they may have to escape from an enemy prison. Then it's a daring chase through enemy territory. Feel free to work in some opportunity to add to the story rather than just sink the who game when the dice turn nasty or some mistakes are made.
Though it's also worth pointing out that just because the party drops, it doesn't necessarily mean they all have to die. There are ways to take the K out of TPK. You can always have the enemy stabilize the party and capture them as prisoners. Taking the group in "for questioning" can actually lead to more adventures. If they get taken out and captured, now they may have to escape from an enemy prison. Then it's a daring chase through enemy territory. Feel free to work in some opportunity to add to the story rather than just sink the who game when the dice turn nasty or some mistakes are made.
jasper
Rotten DM
...are ways to take the K out of TPK. You can always have the enemy stabilize the party ......
And Oscar the Orc looked upon the bleeding bodies of Peter, Paul And Mary slayers of 10,576.3967 orcs this season, and said to himself. "shucky darn. I bet they have some great pie recipes. I going to heal them and see they swap recipes."
If and only if a good reason to bring back alive should any critter do so. I don't mean be EVILLLLL to the group. But if the party are villains in the monsters eyes, and the party is doing for the count. Kill them and loot the bodies.
And Oscar the Orc looked upon the bleeding bodies of Peter, Paul And Mary slayers of 10,576.3967 orcs this season, and said to himself. "shucky darn. I bet they have some great pie recipes. I going to heal them and see they swap recipes."
If and only if a good reason to bring back alive should any critter do so. I don't mean be EVILLLLL to the group. But if the party are villains in the monsters eyes, and the party is doing for the count. Kill them and loot the bodies.
I didn't really think I had to specify "if it makes sense for the adventure" here. I wasn't speaking of any specific campaign or anything. In a war style campaign, being taken prisoner may make sense. Getting mauled by a bear, not so much. Things like that. The point is that rather than it being the end of the game, there is the possibility sometimes that it can lead to something else. Not all the time, but sometimes. There is a lot to be said for being creative.
SwivSnapshot
First Post
Exactly.
The first time, players had a run of bad rolling at the same time I was having a run of good luck during Death House, so by the time they reached the BBEG, they were out of spell slots, hit dice and healing potions. I cut Big Bad's HP by a third and dumped most of the tricks and traps they were supposed to encounter on the way out.
The second time, I dumped an encounter that should have occurred because the party's rogues had already messed up and triggered a trap that 5 of 6 PC's failed to survive. Two wipes in one night seemed mean spirited.
transtemporal
Explorer
I ran a death knight and 2 red wizards against my 5-man 10th level party in the last session (thats 2 or 3 times past "deadly" by the way). They were fresh. One died, three were down and on their 2nd and 3rd death saves. The handcrossbow ranger saved the day but it could've just as easily been a wipe.
When I put the encounter together I didn't know how hard it would be and I was trying to gauge where the TPK point is. Now I know where that is, I can dial it back a bit so I expect in future I'll probably be able to avoid accidental TPKs. Probably. lol
When I put the encounter together I didn't know how hard it would be and I was trying to gauge where the TPK point is. Now I know where that is, I can dial it back a bit so I expect in future I'll probably be able to avoid accidental TPKs. Probably. lol
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