Paladin will slice the cleric, or will the cleric bash the paladin?

greycastle

First Post
Hello all. A possibly incredibly ignorant question, but if you place two well designed characters, one paladin, one cleric at level
- level 1
- level 5
- level 9
- level 13

Who will most likely be more effective, more useful, and if a battle ensued between the two, who would more likely win?
 

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Darklone

Registered User
You can't really say that. At lvl13 though, a paladin with a scythe and Power Critical will most likely win assuming he is able to hit once...

First:
The paladins powers (and spells) depend largely on the alignment of his opponent. Against an evil cleric, I've seen no paladin lose till now. Against a good cleric (weird fight), the paladin is prolly gonna lose assuming the cleric has place for 5ft steps out of reach and healing.

Second:
Buff spells allowed before combat or not? If not, the cleric is wasted at nearly any level except for a slight chance of a save or die (or whatever) spell.

Third:
What point buy stats? The paladin needs a little bit higher stats than average to shine.
 
Last edited:

greycastle

First Post
Well...on that note, how many points would a paladin need to actually 'shine' without going over board with say "str 18, dex 12, con 17, int 10, wis 18, cha 18" ???

And lets say in this case both classes gain 2 rounds before hand for buffs *almost a wizards duel, but to th death, but fourght with a degree of honour*
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
*almost a wizards duel, but to th death, but fourght with a degree of honour*

Section C, subsection iv: Should the losing contender feel that his death was caused in a dishonourable fashion, he must lodge an appeal with the arbiter, in writing, within fifteen minutes of the conclusion of the event.

-Hyp.
 

Darklone

Registered User
Due to my restricted low level experience (up to level 12), a paladin should have at least a 16 Cha, a 14 strength (lower is still possible but takes some levels till he starts to shine in combat due to BAB), a 12 or 13 wisdom (though with any lower score than 14 you will desperately want some nice items), and at least a 14-16 in Con.

My girlfriend plays a paladin with strength 13 (now), dex 11, con 15, int 10, wis 12, cha 18.

In that case, Divine Might or not is the magic equalizer.
 

Trickstergod

First Post
By all rights, the paladin really should be chopping the cleric up into little bits. It might take forever, but every time the cleric heals a wound the paladin made, the paladin makes just another one.

If you want a good, generic example, though, the best one to use would be the generic NPC's from the DM's Guide, and spells and domains from the Core book only. Otherwise, it turns into a smorgasbord of whipping out one book after another, screaming "18 Charisma that! Divine Might this! Owl's Wisdom here! Fortunate Fate there!". Craziness. Every book that gives one advantage to one class, has been countered elsewhere, be it from a feat like Power Critical, or a spell like Fortunate Fate. Even if the DMG NPC's aren't particularly great, they're still about on par, as far as feats and the like go.

I started taking things apart really only for 1st and 5th level. However, it essentially breaks down like this:

Presuming the cleric is not evil, things are fairly even. At first level, the paladin is favored, though barely, if the cleric plays his cards right. After that, things become a bit less clear.

At fifth, for example, if a cleric loaded up on Hold Persons, there's no way that the paladin's going to survive except through sheer luck; three Hold Persons nearly guarantee the paladin is going to f' up a save then join Coup des Grace ville for five rounds, and at that level, the paladin doesn't have enough tricks to swat the cleric down in three rounds. Even if he did, that just means the cleric resorts to heal, Hold Person, heal, Hold Person. However, most clerics likely won't have more than one or two Hold Persons prepared at 5th level, in which case, the paladin, in my opinion, becomes the favored combatant. Though, only barely.

Past that point, although the paladin does have poor Will saves, this is countered by the fact that they should have a decent Wisdom and good Charisma, both of which will put the paladins Will saves on par with the cleric's spell save DC's, at least up until 13th level. Fortitude goes without saying, and cleric's have few Reflex-related spells, to my recollection, and of them, few are the save or be seriously screwed sorts. At ninth, a Flame Strike can be quite detrimental to our erstwhile paladin, but I'm not sure it would be the deciding factor. Still, I think that this point that even a clerics general assortment of spells has enough to deal with the paladin. A Flame Strike, at least one or two Domain spell goodies (a decent number of which are also direct, damaging spells), a bit of healing when the need requires, and buff spells (even if cast during the combat - the cleric has enough healing, at this point, to make up for a lost round or two) should see the cleric through.

As for 13th? Even with 3.5 Harm, I put my money on the cleric. 65 points of damage from a Harm spell (which will likely hit), then a Flame Strike which whip out 40 or so damage, a Heal for the cleric, and a number of other tricks which have built up over the levels, well, I think the paladin would lose out.

But, I could be mistaken.
 

Darklone

Registered User
At least in the mid levels, the paladins mount should be taken into account ... wouldn't be the first mount that I see that rips the opponent apart while the rider is nearly dead...
 

Trickstergod

First Post
Quite true on the mount, and not entirely forgotten; just not taken fully into the equation. Still, between Summoned Monsters, possible controlled undead/elemental creatures, there's still some degree of being able to hold off the mount while the cleric deals with the paladin, and I still also believe that, come 13th level, the favors shift into the clerics favor, horsey or not. Before that - less clear, leaning towards the paladin at first and fifth level unless the cleric has prepared his spells specifically for tossing around a single, human fighter type.
 



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