Paladin will slice the cleric, or will the cleric bash the paladin?
Artoomis
First Post
I think it's a close call at any level.
If we assume an evil cleric, then a properly equipped Paladin might be able to kill him with one lance charge at mid and higher levels.
Let's see:
Assume an 18 Cha and 14 Str, 9th level human paladin, +2 lance
Spells Cast: Divine Favor (+2 Atk and Dam); Righteous Fury (+ 4d4 temp hit pts, +2 AC, +2 STR and DEX, +2 Fort)
Rhino Hide (on the horse and rider, if you must - some combination should work without any arguments), Spirited Charge, Divine Might and Smite Evil. Pretty standard fare for a paladin.
Other items should probably be geared toward helping saves - especially Will save)
To hit: +9 (Pal), +4 (Smite), +2 (Str) +2 (lance) +2 (Divine Favor) + 1 (Righteous Fury Str Enhancement) +4 (Smite) = +24
Damage = d8 +2 (Lance) +2 (Str) +2 (Divine Favor) +1 (Righteous Fury) +9 (Smite) = d8 +16
Multiplier = x2 (charge) x2 (Spirited Charge) x2 (Rhino Hide) = x4
Damage total = 4d8 + 64, average = 82
Average hit points for cleric (12 Con) = 76 + 9 = 85
Whew - close - plus a Fort save or die from massive damage.
Who wins? A close call for sure. First intiative and clerical domain spells will go a long way toward deciding the outcome.
If we assume an evil cleric, then a properly equipped Paladin might be able to kill him with one lance charge at mid and higher levels.
Let's see:
Assume an 18 Cha and 14 Str, 9th level human paladin, +2 lance
Spells Cast: Divine Favor (+2 Atk and Dam); Righteous Fury (+ 4d4 temp hit pts, +2 AC, +2 STR and DEX, +2 Fort)
Rhino Hide (on the horse and rider, if you must - some combination should work without any arguments), Spirited Charge, Divine Might and Smite Evil. Pretty standard fare for a paladin.
Other items should probably be geared toward helping saves - especially Will save)
To hit: +9 (Pal), +4 (Smite), +2 (Str) +2 (lance) +2 (Divine Favor) + 1 (Righteous Fury Str Enhancement) +4 (Smite) = +24
Damage = d8 +2 (Lance) +2 (Str) +2 (Divine Favor) +1 (Righteous Fury) +9 (Smite) = d8 +16
Multiplier = x2 (charge) x2 (Spirited Charge) x2 (Rhino Hide) = x4
Damage total = 4d8 + 64, average = 82
Average hit points for cleric (12 Con) = 76 + 9 = 85
Whew - close - plus a Fort save or die from massive damage.
Who wins? A close call for sure. First intiative and clerical domain spells will go a long way toward deciding the outcome.
Last edited:
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I think you'll get arguments there no matter what...
Even if you made him a centaur paladin, you'd get arguments about Spirited Charge and the lance bonus.
-Hyp.
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
The mount has a fair chance of taking out a 5th or 6th level cleric (or the paladin himself) single-handedly. Two on one would be no contest at lower levels.
Minus the mount, a well designed combat cleric will clean the paladin's clock. The BAB edge isn't big enough to matter unless the Paladin is getting an extra attack in the bargain. That edge disappears if the cleric can get a Divine Power spell off.
If you think I am off my rocker, you are probably forgetting that a fighting cleric can afford to have a mere 13-15 starting Wis while the paladin needs both a good Cha (~16 starting) and a decent Wis (12+) or he is pretty dysfunctional, even before considering the Hold Person factor. All else being equal, the cleric should have a higher natural Str or Con or both. Of course, he may also have the option of casting an Extended Bull's Strength or Endurance at the beginning of the day.
Do not forget domain powers. Animal (animal companions) and Death are particularly handy. War, Strength, and Destruction are none to shabby either.
Also, the cleric can cast a fog or wall to temporarily break off combat in order to heal up. Clerics have deeper healing at all levels -- although Lay of Hands is handier during combat up until Heal is available.
Minus the mount, a well designed combat cleric will clean the paladin's clock. The BAB edge isn't big enough to matter unless the Paladin is getting an extra attack in the bargain. That edge disappears if the cleric can get a Divine Power spell off.
If you think I am off my rocker, you are probably forgetting that a fighting cleric can afford to have a mere 13-15 starting Wis while the paladin needs both a good Cha (~16 starting) and a decent Wis (12+) or he is pretty dysfunctional, even before considering the Hold Person factor. All else being equal, the cleric should have a higher natural Str or Con or both. Of course, he may also have the option of casting an Extended Bull's Strength or Endurance at the beginning of the day.
Do not forget domain powers. Animal (animal companions) and Death are particularly handy. War, Strength, and Destruction are none to shabby either.
Also, the cleric can cast a fog or wall to temporarily break off combat in order to heal up. Clerics have deeper healing at all levels -- although Lay of Hands is handier during combat up until Heal is available.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: Re: Grapple
Heh!
It's hilarious because it's true...!
-Hyp.
Heh!
It's hilarious because it's true...!
-Hyp.
greycastle
First Post
Dont forget the changes to hold in 3.5...
I think you can make an arguement that the paladin might win in combat, though it is far from clear cut.
Out of combat, there is no contest. Cleric is more effective and useful. If for no other reason than spellcasting. Need answers? Ask god. Clerics are clearly better at this than paladin.
Out of combat, there is no contest. Cleric is more effective and useful. If for no other reason than spellcasting. Need answers? Ask god. Clerics are clearly better at this than paladin.
Virgil Sagecaster
First Post
Well, the cleric can always cut-off the horses legs and watch "the most honored palidin" topple to the ground, and laugh histerically while cast's a harm on the mount.......just a possiblity.
Trickstergod
First Post
Mounted Combat and a decent number of ranks in Ride says the Cleric's likely doing no such thing.
