TPK: Should I let it happen? Am I being fair?
Eltab
Lord of the Hidden Layer
My players surprised me during our Tiamat campaign by defeating Arauthator with no losses. I was actually trying to kill them (for once) - and did have half the group making Death Save rolls - but one PC had a Staff of Healing which she max'ed out and kicked up enough spare HP to heal everybody back to full strength. (There were so many healing HP around I could have full-healed Arauthator too after all of them were done.)
So: the ritual requires a magic item to 'fuel' it (as well as a lot of blood). Somebody thought it would be deliciously ironic to bring in healing magic to empower the Living Engine of Destruction. When the PCs get up close, not all of the magic has been drained away... But it's still up to the PCs to see the clue and take advantage and fortify themselves.
So: the ritual requires a magic item to 'fuel' it (as well as a lot of blood). Somebody thought it would be deliciously ironic to bring in healing magic to empower the Living Engine of Destruction. When the PCs get up close, not all of the magic has been drained away... But it's still up to the PCs to see the clue and take advantage and fortify themselves.
OK, first of all I often told the players (half laughing, half serious), before they start playing with me, that I am a bastart game master that enjoys killing characters and that they should expect frequent TPKs if they do the worng actions.
I believe / think / hope that all game masters do this, so I assume you are along the same line.
Said that, I think there are two kind of TPK:
1) TPK brought by bad planning of the adventure
2) TPK brought by bad roleplaying of the adventure
Number one is your fault -and is bad- while number two is the players' fault -and is very good, as it brings learning and wisdom, things that in life are always useful. If the players will be unhappy with it, just change game or change players: they are not suitable for any kind of gaming and you are not there to plump their egos (unless they pay you suitably, of course!)
solamon77
Explorer
Solid advice. I truly believe that is one is the second type of TPK. I made sure to have everything lined up so that the party could not only discover the secret of the temple (which they did), but also enact the needed requirements (non-lethal takedowns) with significant ease. After reading this forum, I've decided to let things play out as the dice let them. Perhaps the PCs can figure something clever out that doesn't involve attacking the over-powered demon head on. We'll see.
Searinox Nagharha
Explorer
Maybe not a TPK but definetly a few, of you can 'fudge' it especially put the scare on the Pro-Lethality ppl.
I like my players to have a constant fear of the consecuences so they dont go rampaging
I like my players to have a constant fear of the consecuences so they dont go rampaging
If you do kill them, I'd make it abundantly clear that the souls they have been adding the whole time are the reason.
Here's how I'd do it:
Like, the demon makes some hand motions, a cloud of smoke with movement inside appears over it's head - Perception check, oh, you see the faces of the last creatures you killed, writhing in agony! and their forms wither in agony as they are sucked into the ball of energy forming in it's hands. It casts, and as the spell blasts over the whole party, wizard, make an Arcana check - yes, this spell is one you recognize but way more powerful than usual.
Or, the Fighter attacks, and you can see each sword blade is interrupted by a form that is floating around the demon in the air. Yes, each one is a soul you recognize. And every single thing they do is absorbed by that swirling mass of tormented souls without touching the demon, ablating off, soul by soul, of the dead they created. They can tell the shell is reducing in power and size, but it's still so thick, their spells are dwindling, and two of them are making Death saves.
Arcana check! Oh, it's expending those souls to fuel it's power. Intelligence check! Oh, the souls we recognize are in the reverse order of the beings they've been slaying.
Stuff like that.
Rub their noses in it. Kindly.
Here's how I'd do it:
Like, the demon makes some hand motions, a cloud of smoke with movement inside appears over it's head - Perception check, oh, you see the faces of the last creatures you killed, writhing in agony! and their forms wither in agony as they are sucked into the ball of energy forming in it's hands. It casts, and as the spell blasts over the whole party, wizard, make an Arcana check - yes, this spell is one you recognize but way more powerful than usual.
Or, the Fighter attacks, and you can see each sword blade is interrupted by a form that is floating around the demon in the air. Yes, each one is a soul you recognize. And every single thing they do is absorbed by that swirling mass of tormented souls without touching the demon, ablating off, soul by soul, of the dead they created. They can tell the shell is reducing in power and size, but it's still so thick, their spells are dwindling, and two of them are making Death saves.
Arcana check! Oh, it's expending those souls to fuel it's power. Intelligence check! Oh, the souls we recognize are in the reverse order of the beings they've been slaying.
Stuff like that.
Rub their noses in it. Kindly.
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solamon77
Explorer
I'm sorry to necro this thread, but I haven't been around in a while. I promised originally that I would post back about the way the fight with the demon went.
It was a total party kill. The demon wiped the floor with them. They came up with some really really awesome and crazy solutions to hopefully escape involving using a potion of gaseous form, reappearing inside the demons body, and then using an immovable rod to hold the demon in place, but ultimately at the end of it all it proved too little too late. Everyone died and I ended the campaign with the party completely defeated.
The up side is now, in the next campaign, they now all know that I'm not a toothless DM and I WILL crush the entire party without a second thought.
It was a total party kill. The demon wiped the floor with them. They came up with some really really awesome and crazy solutions to hopefully escape involving using a potion of gaseous form, reappearing inside the demons body, and then using an immovable rod to hold the demon in place, but ultimately at the end of it all it proved too little too late. Everyone died and I ended the campaign with the party completely defeated.
The up side is now, in the next campaign, they now all know that I'm not a toothless DM and I WILL crush the entire party without a second thought.
Well, that's because they don't know about your second thoughtsThe up side is now, in the next campaign, they now all know that I'm not a toothless DM and I WILL crush the entire party without a second thought.
Thanks for reporting back!
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