D&D 5E Action Point Initiative

I've been thinking about initiative, including Mearls' recent alternate version, along with various Action Point mechanics of some older games. Not *fully* though through, though - just some preliminary musings. I'm sure I"m not the first to wonder how this would work. Hell, it might even be already in that other thread - I haven't read the whole thing!

So, you take Mearls' initiative system, using the damage as initiative roll variant. However, you no longer have rounds - you just have one long track.

• Start a combat by rolling initiative as normal (using Dex). Take your action on your turn. Then declare your next action and roll the initiative die/dice for that, adding it to the current initiative count. That action completes at that that initiative count, at which point you declare your next action.
• You only take one action, or one move at a time.
• You can interrupt your own action and change your mind. You just declare a new action before the initiative count indicates your action has completed and reset from that point.
• Spells have a flat initiative count equal to twice their level.
• Anything which takes a turn's duration simply takes 20 initiative beats instead.

I haven't considered how bonus actions and the like factor in yet. And I definitely haven't playtested it - it's just musings.

One possibility is to factor what you do this turn in when you next act, not what you plan to do.

Action: d8
Bonus Action : d6
Move: d4
Reaction: d4

Roll initiative normally for first round. After you've completed your turn in the round, roll a number of dice based on what you already did. Subtract from current initiative count (or setup initiative to start low and add to it each round).

Example:
You roll a net 19 for initiative in first round, going first.
You move up to orc, use an action. Roll d8+d4. You roll total of 10. Your next initiative is 9.
Orc rolled net 12 for initiative in first round, going second.
Orc uses action to attack. Roll d8. It rolls 2. It's next initiative is 10. So in round 2, orc has initiative 10, you have initiative 9, orc will go first.

This eliminates the declaration of actions, which some will see as a bug, others as a feature. (The benefit is that you have no "wasted" actions because things change after you declared your intentions, since you only decide what to do when it's your turn. For those who like old school initiative systems, no declarations is a bug.)

It also benefits classes and builds that do not depend on bonus actions and movement, but that appears to be a feature of all these "Mearls-type" initiative systems.

I had basically the same idea. Each action takes a certain amount of time, and just keep counting.

But I would use a wheel/clock, with 20 or so ticks on it. (I think there's already a few game that has something like that). Each action you roll the die and move that many ticks on the clock.
It would be much easier than adding and keeping track of the total count.

I do like your change-your-mind thing. You should lose time for bad decisions and indecisiveness, but not your entire turn. Something I think is too harsh in Mearls system.

One possibility is to factor what you do this turn in when you next act, not what you plan to do.

Click to expand...

It would be simpler.
Though there's something to be said about not knowing who will act next.

Also, multi-attack = -1 to your initiative roll when you attack (minimum 1).

You just attack faster.

Not sure about the action points. Can't recall ever using them. Otherwise I grok this not, but would love to add comments. I find initiative house rules interesting.

Miladoon said:

Not sure about the action points. Can't recall ever using them. Otherwise I grok this not, but would love to add comments. I find initiative house rules interesting.

Click to expand...

My rough draft.

Initiative starts at 0, count up (or rather, go around a clock circle that makes it easier to keep track of, but that's harder to show on the forums).

Declare your action, roll the appropriate die, and add it the current initiative count (or move that many around the clock). When that count comes up, do that thing, and declare another action.
You can change actions at any time, but need to reroll your die at the current initiative.

Actions would be 1d8.
Multi-attack is replaced by Fast-Attack, which makes attacking 1d6. Multi-attack monsters will also have fast attacks like 1d4 for claw, and 1d6 for bite.
Movement is 1d6.
Disengage (includes full movement) is 1d10.
Bonus actions would be 1d4.
Items interaction and talking is a flat 1.
Reactions are immediate but interrupt your declared action, so you need to declare and roll again.
Dodge is immediate, and last until you declare an action.
Surprise and stuns would add 1d12. You just lose time.

<insert tie-breaker, and note about none of this is tested>

Example. A fighter walks around a corner and there's a goblin on guard.

Initiative count 0: Goblin wants to shoot, rolls 0 (the current count) + 1d8, rolls well and get's to shoot on count 3. Fighter draws his sword for 0+1.
Initiative count 1: Fighter wants to move, rolls 1 (the current count) +d6, and moves on count 5.
Initiative count 2: - Nothing happens.
Initiative count 3: Goblin shoots. He wants to shoot again, rolls 3+d8, get's to do so on count 7.
Initiative count 4: -
Initiative count 5: Fighter moves, and get's in the gets in the goblins face. He then wants to smash the goblin. He has multi-attack so it's 5+1d6. He now acts on count 8. The goblin changes his mind and wants to flee. 5+1d10, and get's 13.
Initiative count 6: -
Initiative count 7: -
Initiative count 8: The fighter smashes the goblin. The fighter wants to attack again. 8+1d6, and acts on turn 10.
Initiative count 9: -
Initiative count 10: The fighter smash the goblin again, killing him before can flee.

I had pretty much the same idea.

Back in around '80 or so a gaming shop opened near me ("Pendragon" gaming in Lewiston, ME) founded by some friends from Bates College. One of the DMs there used his own initiative system similar to what Morrus is describing: you would tell him what your character wanted to do, and depending on a variety of factors your action would consume a variable amount of time before it was your turn again. TBH I didn't understand it, and just trusted him to tell me when it was my turn again. (I was 14...)

Elfcrusher said:

I had pretty much the same idea.

Back in around '80 or so a gaming shop opened near me ("Pendragon" gaming in Lewiston, ME) founded by some friends from Bates College. One of the DMs there used his own initiative system similar to what Morrus is describing: you would tell him what your character wanted to do, and depending on a variety of factors your action would consume a variable amount of time before it was your turn again. TBH I didn't understand it, and just trusted him to tell me when it was my turn again. (I was 14...)

Click to expand...

Embarrassed to say it but I miss the 80s. As a player, I would use any initiative system the DM wanted me to use and put my trust in his antics.

Anyhoo.

These alternate initiative threads are making me hit the 'old' books, looking for similarities. I copy and paste from Moldvay Basic, 1981 printing.

1. Morale checks, if needed (page B27).
2. Movement per round, meieed opponents may only move
defensively (spell casters may not move and cast spells).
3. Missilefirecombat:
a. choosetargets
b. roll ld20 to hit; adjust result by Dexterity adjustment,
range, cover, and magic c. DMrollsdamage
4. Magicspells(rollsavingthrows,asneeded:ld20). 5. Melee or hand-to-hand combat:
a. choose(orbeattackedby)opponents
b. roll ld20 to hit; adjust result by Strength adjustment and
magic weapons
c. DM rolls damage; adjust result by Strength adjustment
and magic weapons
C. The side with the next highest initiative acts second, and so on using the order given above, until all sides have completed melee.
D. The DM handles any surrenders, retreats, etc. as they occur.

Not much like Morrus', but interesting just the same.

Miladoon said:

Embarrassed to say it but I miss the 80s.

Click to expand...

You're far from alone. They were better.

Morrus said:

I've been thinking about initiative, including Mearls' recent alternate version, along with various Action Point mechanics of some older games. Not *fully* though through, though - just some preliminary musings. I'm sure I"m not the first to wonder how this would work. Hell, it might even be already in that other thread - I haven't read the whole thing!

So, you take Mearls' initiative system, using the damage as initiative roll variant. However, you no longer have rounds - you just have one long track.

• Start a combat by rolling initiative as normal (using Dex). Take your action on your turn. Then declare your next action and roll the initiative die/dice for that, adding it to the current initiative count. That action completes at that that initiative count, at which point you declare your next action.
• You only take one action, or one move at a time.
• You can interrupt your own action and change your mind. You just declare a new action before the initiative count indicates your action has completed and reset from that point.
• Spells have a flat initiative count equal to twice their level.
• Anything which takes a turn's duration simply takes 20 initiative beats instead.

I haven't considered how bonus actions and the like factor in yet. And I definitely haven't playtested it - it's just musings.

Click to expand...

This is very similar to my "roundless" version here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12xPT-45PCBvaAJ3FaKI2Tkz2UmMGzoFcCzG0i7BfOss/edit?usp=sharing

I now have a simpler round-based one at the top of the document, scroll down for the full version.

No rounds. Roll for the next initiative when you use your turn as suggested, bonus action and reactions, delay and ready, changing your mind, and no modifiers to initiative. Movement is separated from your action.