Discovery and Star Trek

MarkB · Oct 31, 2017

They're also going in a completely different direction with Stamets than I expected. The initial introduction to his non-linear nature was definitely rather creepy, and I was expecting them to go all mirror-universe / evil-clone with it. The way he was portrayed in this episode was a welcome surprise, and while it still feels like there could be some nasty surprises ahead for/from his character, this once again feels like some great character building, taking the Discovery's crew towards being a fully-functional team.

It was also an interesting way to explore Burnham's character and capacity for romantic relationships. The whole "you have to be romantic in order to save the ship" concept was a little heavy-handed, but the fact that Burnham wasn't retaining those memories allowed it to be an exploration of possibilities without committing her character to an instant relationship - again, strengthening character bonds and rounding out the main cast.

And Harry Mudd's eventual fate was a nice way of tying up the character's story arc in a way that led nicely into his appearances in the original series, also adding a little extra sting to his final fate in I, Mudd. He really never will get away from Stella.

Hussar · Oct 31, 2017

I did rather like the latest episode. It was a nice break away from the rather heavy themes of the first bunch. Dark as all get out but also surprisingly funny as well. Great writing.

As far as not liking a show goes, that's perfectly fair. I have no problems with anyone not liking something. What baffles me though is the need to tell everyone that you don't like it. I don't like Game of Thrones (horror!). I don't. I found the books to be mind numbingly boring and desperately in need of some serious editing. Which, in turn, has meant that I've never gotten into the TV version. Fair enough.

But, I don't go into GoT threads to tell people how much I don't like the show. I just do what I always do with stuff I don't like. I completely ignore it.

I guess I'll just never understand the compulsive need that people seem to have to proclaim their dislike of something. If you don't like it, why weave it into the fabric of your existence?

Ryujin · Oct 31, 2017

It's simple; discussions aren't always positive and people have opinions. For example look at the first post in this thread.

Hussar · Oct 31, 2017

Ryujin said:
It's simple; discussions aren't always positive and people have opinions. For example look at the first post in this thread.

Opinions are fine. That's no problem. Again, I have zero issue with someone not liking something. But, to actively search out threads, or even starting a thread of your own, just to bitch about a TV show seems excessive.

And, we're not talking about things like, "Oh, I didn't like this part of the show". Heck, that's normal. That's just bog standard criticism. It's "Wow, this show sucks, I can't believe anyone watches it". Repeatedly.

Why bang the drum for something you don't like?

Mort · Oct 31, 2017

Hussar said:
I did rather like the latest episode. It was a nice break away from the rather heavy themes of the first bunch. Dark as all get out but also surprisingly funny as well. Great writing.

I really liked this episode, until the ending.

I get what they were trying to do, it's meant to be comedic and to tie into the old trek.

I'm putting this in Spoilers because it's close to the episode airing:

But it doesn't work with how they've established Mudd here. He's a total sociopath. By "giving" him to the woman and her father they've quite likely signed the, pairs death warrants! Mudd would totally murder them for their fortune!

Further, what exactly is to stop Mudd from selling out Discovery indirectly? Even if he can't get back on it, he could totally sell its secrets. The crew, especially Stamets and Lorca 100% know this.

The attempt at the fun ending totally ruined it for me.

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CapnZapp · Oct 31, 2017

Hussar said:
I did rather like the latest episode. It was a nice break away from the rather heavy themes of the first bunch. Dark as all get out but also surprisingly funny as well. Great writing.

As far as not liking a show goes, that's perfectly fair. I have no problems with anyone not liking something. What baffles me though is the need to tell everyone that you don't like it. I don't like Game of Thrones (horror!). I don't. I found the books to be mind numbingly boring and desperately in need of some serious editing. Which, in turn, has meant that I've never gotten into the TV version. Fair enough.

But, I don't go into GoT threads to tell people how much I don't like the show. I just do what I always do with stuff I don't like. I completely ignore it.

I guess I'll just never understand the compulsive need that people seem to have to proclaim their dislike of something. If you don't like it, why weave it into the fabric of your existence?

If you mean Star Trek fans must like the new show to express their opinions - that's absurd.

Of course you will hear us fans voice our differences when a Star Trek show abandons elements we consider key to such a show's nature.

If anything, consider why you felt the need to post in this thread. Then maybe apply that exact desire to us before you publicly judge us, eh?

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Hussar · Oct 31, 2017

CapnZapp said:
If you mean Star Trek fans must like the new show to express their opinions - that's absurd.

Of course you will hear us fans voice our differences when a Star Trek show abandons elements we consider key to such a show's nature.

If anything, consider why you felt the need to post in this thread. Then maybe apply that exact desire to us before you publicly judge us, eh?

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Nope. Not at all. Not liking something is perfectly fine. Take [MENTION=762]Mort[/MENTION]'s comment above. The episode ending was something he didn't like. Fair enough. I can understand that and, to be honest, I can sympathise. I found the ending a bit... lacking as well. Mudd previously was a scoundrel but, he wasn't a murdering sociopath. Never minding the issue with letting him go without sending him to prison. I mean, illegally boarding a Star Fleet vessel would probably merit some sort of jail time. Doing so in a time of war, assault with a deadly weapon, death threats, admitting to treason with trying to contact the Klingons - all of this would merit a lot more serious of a punishment than being sent on his way.

Like I said, fair enough.

The difference with what I'm talking about is people repeatedly complaining about the same thing, over and over again, telling all and sundry how the show sucks and it's terrible and so on and so forth. If you hate the show, the solution seems simple enough. Don't watch it. What do you hope to accomplish by piddling in everyone else's cornflakes though?

I recently saw the phrase "hatewatching". It's such a bizarre concept to me. The idea that I'm going to hate something but then continue to be involved with that thing is just so far left field.

Ryujin · Oct 31, 2017

Hussar said:
Opinions are fine. That's no problem. Again, I have zero issue with someone not liking something. But, to actively search out threads, or even starting a thread of your own, just to bitch about a TV show seems excessive.

And, we're not talking about things like, "Oh, I didn't like this part of the show". Heck, that's normal. That's just bog standard criticism. It's "Wow, this show sucks, I can't believe anyone watches it". Repeatedly.

Why bang the drum for something you don't like?

Of the two which would you prefer; that people who don't like it thread crap all over it, or that they start their own critical threads? I have no commentary on the current episodes because I haven't seen them. I can certainly comment on what I have already seen, but my comments in the ongoing thread have become few. I don't hate watch. I'm critical of the Kelvin Universe reboot and have seen them all but it wasn't hate watching, but rather hoping and praying that they would improve.

You "bang the drum", as you put it, because fora and social media actually can have an effect on such things these days. I, for one, don't say that others shouldn't like Discovery, but I will certainly voice why I don't.

CapnZapp · Oct 31, 2017

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25...ity-spock-michael-burnham-technology-klingons

The all-encompassing question that this editorial piece fails to answer is:

Why set it as a prequel if you intend to ignore much of everything established by "later" shows?

Here are some choice snippets from the comments section:

Continuity is half the fun of being a fan. Throw that out and what’s the point of setting the show in the middle of Enterprise and TOS? Why not just set it after TNG and be as futuristic and open with story as you want?

My take is that this show is technically part of the kelvin timeline and they just can’t say so because of legal limitations. But that was always the intention.

Star Trek as a TV show or Movie series was always one giant universe. And the legal control over what lived where was never an issue before. And it now ruins the experience for the fans.

I agree with you 100% — was about to post the same thing (though not as eloquently). What’s wrong with just continuing in the future, especially since we JUST HAD a "prequel" in ‘Enterprise". I’m the first to say "Voyager" wasn’t great, but that doesn’t mean a great series can’t be written with sequel-continuity rather than prequel.

Writers: "Here’s a Star Trek show. It’s set after the other TV shows, it has a new enemy race, a new FTL method, etc…"
CBS: "But it’s Star Trek. It must have Spock and Klingons in it. Rewrite it, so Spock and Klingons will be in it!"

One reason and one reason only. Someone wanted the protagonist to be Spock’s Super Secret Step Sister. that’s a lotta S’s, but is the key to it all. If they had gotten over that crap, this could have been set 10 years after Voyager, and 90% of it’s sins would immediately not be sins.

Especially that last part is something I have difficulty reconciling myself with:

"this could have been set 10 years after Voyager, and 90% of it’s sins would immediately not be sins"

In that aspect Discovery feels just like repeating the egregious errors made by Enterprise

Morrus · Oct 31, 2017

I’ve largely given up trying to discuss the show other than a brief comment about new episodes.

Discovery and Star Trek

MarkB

Legend

Hussar

Legend

Ryujin

Legend

Hussar

Legend

Mort

Legend

CapnZapp

Legend

Hussar

Legend

Ryujin

Legend

CapnZapp

Legend

Morrus

Well, that was fun

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