Game Mechanics And Player Agency

The concept of player agency is a central pillar of all role-playing games. It is a balancing factor against the omnipotent, omniscient Game Master. For the purposes of this article, we will be focusing on the smaller-scale application of player agency and the role of game mechanics that negate or modify such agency.


From the very first iteration of Dungeons & Dragons in 1974, there have been mechanics in place in RPGs to force certain decisions upon players. A classic D&D example is the charm person spell, which allows the spell caster to bring someone under their control and command. (The 1983 D&D Basic Set even includes such a possible outcome in its very first tutorial adventure, in which your hapless Fighter may fall under the sway of Bargle and "decide" to let the outlaw magic-user go free even after murdering your friend Aleena!)

It didn't take long for other RPGs to start experimenting with even greater mechanical methods of limiting player agency. Call of Cthulhu (1981) introduced the Sanity mechanic as a way of tracking the player-characters' mental stress and degeneration in the face of mind-blasting horrors. But the Temporary Insanity rules also dictated that PCs exposed to particularly nasty shocks were no longer necessarily in control of their own actions. The current edition of the game even gives the Call of Cthulhu GM carte blanche to dictate the hapless investigator's fate, having the PC come to their senses hours later having been robbed, beaten, or even institutionalized!

King Arthur Pendragon debuted in 1985 featuring even more radical behavioral mechanics. The game's system of Traits and Passions perfectly mirrors the Arthurian tales, in which normally sensible and virtuous knights and ladies with everything to lose risk it all in the name of love, hatred, vengeance, or petty jealousy. So too are the player-knights of the game driven to foolhardy heroism or destructive madness, quite often against the players' wishes. Indeed, suffering a bout of madness in Pendragon is enough to put a player-knight out of the game sometimes for (quite literally) many game-years on end…and if the player-knight does return, they are apt to have undergone significant trauma reflected in altered statistics.

The legacies of Call of Cthulhu and King Arthur Pendragon have influenced numerous other game designs down to this day, and although the charm person spell is not nearly as all-powerful as it was when first introduced in 1974 ("If the spell is successful it will cause the charmed entity to come completely under the influence of the Magic-User until such time as the 'charm' is dispelled[.]"), it and many other mind-affecting spells and items continue to bedevil D&D adventurers of all types.

Infringing on player agency calls for great care in any circumstance. As alluded to at the top of this article, GMs already have so much power in the game, that to appear to take any away from the players is bound to rankle. This is likely why games developed mechanical means to allow GMs to do so in order to make for a more interesting story without appearing biased or arbitrary. Most players, after all, would refuse to voluntarily submit to the will of an evil wizard, to faint or flee screaming in the presence of cosmic horror, or to attack an ally or lover in a blind rage. Yet these moments are often the most memorable of a campaign, and they are facilitated by behavioral mechanics.

What do you think? What's your personal "red line" for behavioral mechanics? Do behavioral mechanics have any place in RPGs, and if so, to what extent? Most crucially: do they enhance narrative or detract from it?

contributed by David Larkins
 

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An NPC with a high charisma talks to a PC. The NPC has the "Oration" skill and makes a really good roll. I tell the Player "His speech is very convincing...he got a 04 on his Oration check!...and virtually everyone in the room is starting to cheer and raise their hand in solidarity with him. What do you do?"...the player should take that info into account and roleplay his character to the best of his ability. The Player knows his character better than me, the GM, sure...but if the player then decides his PC is unswayed and treats the speech as "just some clown trying to get people on his side", that falls into the "not-good RP'ing" side of things. The Player is ignoring everything that just happened in that RP'ing scene.

I disagree. To me this is no different from an npc rolling high on his Diplomacy skill. The player is under no obligation to agree with the npc, or to believe him. All the die roll does, is determine how I describe the scene. But the players are free to interpret this as they like. This is exactly that player-agency-thing that is under discussion here, which I think is vital to enjoying D&D.

Perhaps the players have arguments of their own that are just as valid. The crowd may not be swayed by that, because the npc rolled really high. But the players can think for themselves. Maybe they still believe the npc is wrong, no matter how persuasive he acts. Maybe they still believe him to be a liar. As a DM I'm not saying the npc is not a liar. But what I am saying, is that due to his high roll, he seems to be truthful and honest. And it sways everyone else (who is not under player control).
 

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pming

Legend
Hiya!

I disagree. To me this is no different from an npc rolling high on his Diplomacy skill. The player is under no obligation to agree with the npc, or to believe him. All the die roll does, is determine how I describe the scene. But the players are free to interpret this as they like. This is exactly that player-agency-thing that is under discussion here, which I think is vital to enjoying D&D.

Perhaps the players have arguments of their own that are just as valid. The crowd may not be swayed by that, because the npc rolled really high. But the players can think for themselves. Maybe they still believe the npc is wrong, no matter how persuasive he acts. Maybe they still believe him to be a liar. As a DM I'm not saying the npc is not a liar. But what I am saying, is that due to his high roll, he seems to be truthful and honest. And it sways everyone else (who is not under player control).

Ok, lets look at it this way. Lets replace "Diplomacy" with "Dex Save". And rather than an NPC trying to influence the PC, it's this: "You round the passageway and see a room with a corridor on the opposite side. The room is 50' x 50', with a 5' high ceiling. The floor is probably 5' below the corridors...it is also filled with thousands of sharp, stone, metal and wood spikes. Crossing the room looks painful.You will take...[rolls 6d6], wow, only 18 points of damage, half if you make a Dex save". Now, the player looks at his PC and sees 29hp left...no chance of death.

The question now becomes...does the Player RP his character as in "Huh. Whatever. It can't kill me. I jump down and walk across". Or, does the Player RP his character as "Damn. We can't go through here. Not without almost dieing. We should try and find another way across or a different passage". Lastly, the Player could RP his character in the middle... "This is going to hurt, but we have to do it! The merchants family is being held by cannibal sub-halflings and every second counts. Get the healing spells ready!".

An NPC making a good Diplomacy check should have the same 'weight' on a Player RP'ing his character as any other situation...from a RP point of view. The PLAYER knows the NPC made a good roll, so it is up to the PLAYER to RP as he sees fit. A Player that knows that a trap will not do enough damage to kill them should still RP from the PC's perception; that of seeing a trap that is going to hurt him a lot, possibly kill him (the PC doesn't have any real idea of 'hit points', just like he doesn't have any concept of 'npcs'). My point was that the Player can and should RP his character from the RP perspective. If the group doesn't really do much RP'ing and mostly plays the game as a sort of "combat and story simulator", that's a different kettle of kippers.

Hopefully this explains my stance on "good RP'ing" during a game session...at least "good" from how my group and I see it at any rate.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

Ok, lets look at it this way. Lets replace "Diplomacy" with "Dex Save".

I don't think that is a valid comparison. Dex saves are generally used to resolve your nimbleness or reflexes for something. Whereas Diplomacy is all about influencing other characters. Player agency is never a concern when it comes to the rules deciding if you get hit by something or not, or how well you perform a certain skill. But it is when it comes to charisma based skills.

I get what you are trying to say though.

The question now becomes...does the Player RP his character as in "Huh. Whatever. It can't kill me. I jump down and walk across". Or, does the Player RP his character as "Damn. We can't go through here. Not without almost dieing. We should try and find another way across or a different passage". Lastly, the Player could RP his character in the middle... "This is going to hurt, but we have to do it! The merchants family is being held by cannibal sub-halflings and every second counts. Get the healing spells ready!".

I don't think any of these choices is inherently wrong. They are merely different approaches to playing the game.

An NPC making a good Diplomacy check should have the same 'weight' on a Player RP'ing his character as any other situation...from a RP point of view.

But it's still up to the player to decide how his character responds. There's no wrong way to react here. He can have his character be convinced by the successful Diplomacy roll that the npc made, or he can ignore it. That's up to the player to decide.


A Player that knows that a trap will not do enough damage to kill them should still RP from the PC's perception; that of seeing a trap that is going to hurt him a lot, possibly kill him (the PC doesn't have any real idea of 'hit points', just like he doesn't have any concept of 'npcs').

I don't think a player is obligated to do this at all. In fact, on many occasions my players have pondered whether they should take a certain spell into the upcoming battle, because their character may not have a reason to think the spell would be necessary. And that is always the moment where I as a DM remind them that it is still a game, and they can make what ever choice (good or bad) as they see fit. They can think as their characters, but they can also think as players. Neither is wrong.
 

pming

Legend
Hiya!

I don't think any of these choices is inherently wrong. They are merely different approaches to playing the game.

But it's still up to the player to decide how his character responds. There's no wrong way to react here. He can have his character be convinced by the successful Diplomacy roll that the npc made, or he can ignore it. That's up to the player to decide.

There are no pain rules in 5e either, yet when a PC has 50hp, and after a couple rounds is down to 4hp, the general consensus is that the PC just got his butt handed to him and is now staggering around, bleeding profusely, probably with broken bones and damaged organs, barely keeping themselves upright. Generally speaking.

Now, maybe your players and play style is different than mine, but IMC, my players (and I) "roleplay" such a savage combat outcome. Generally speaking. If a player just said "Oh well, I guess I'll just teleport back to the inn. I'll have dinner, maybe get drunk, see if I can get a bedwarmer as too.", well, that would sort of shatter our collective suspension of disbelief.

Of course, different game groups play differently. This is good. Variety is the spice of life and all that. But for me, I find it difficult to understand how "He got 35 on his Diplomacy check? Pffft! I say 'screw you!' and spit in his face"... is anything OTHER than "bad roleplaying". Just as if a PC/NPC got taken down 99% of their HP's in a couple rounds is capable of simply saying "Oh well...you win. Lets go have a beer!" and then carry on as if they are perfectly 'fine' is likewise "bad roleplaying".

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

delericho

Legend
Of course, different game groups play differently. This is good. Variety is the spice of life and all that. But for me, I find it difficult to understand how "He got 35 on his Diplomacy check? Pffft! I say 'screw you!' and spit in his face"... is anything OTHER than "bad roleplaying".

Here's Loki scoring extremely high on his Intimidate check:

[video=youtube;wsbH_ljJ1fY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbH_ljJ1fY[/video]

The PCs get to choose to be that one guy who stands up.

Civil War, similarly, has examples of Tony attempting to sway Cap with his extremely high social skills, and Cap choosing not to be swayed.
 
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There are no pain rules in 5e either, yet when a PC has 50hp, and after a couple rounds is down to 4hp, the general consensus is that the PC just got his butt handed to him and is now staggering around, bleeding profusely, probably with broken bones and damaged organs, barely keeping themselves upright. Generally speaking.

Interestingly enough, we recently had a whole discussion about the way various groups on this forum narrate the loss of hit points. The answers showed that your interpretation is most definitely not the general consensus. There are plenty of groups that interpret HP-loss as your character's luck running out instead of accumulating physical wounds. The player characters are heroes, for whom luck is in their favor. So loss of hit points could also be a series of near misses and minor bruises.

I should note that the way I narrate hit point loss is similar to the way you describe it here. But I would not go as far as to call it the general consensus.

The PCs get to choose to be that one guy who stands up.

Civil War, similarly, has examples of Tony attempting to sway Cap with his extremely high social skills, and Cap choosing not to be swayed.

What a fantastic example. This is exactly what I meant. No matter how well a character rolls on their diplomacy check, ultimately the players have agency, and decide how their characters react. They can choose to not be swayed, and I don't think that is bad role playing. It might even be great role playing, depending on their reasons.

Another example:

Many years ago I DM'd a third edition campaign, in which the players stumbled into a isolated fishing town, and visited the local tavern. One of the players played a dwarf, and he found himself intimidated by a local. The npc was just out to provoke him into a fight, and rolled really high on his intimidate skill. So here's how I described the scene:

"The sailor towers over you, and he looks like he might be an even match if it came to a fight, despite his lack of armor or weaponry. He mocks your height as a dwarf, and exclaims that he could easily push you between the floor boards with his fingers. It seems obvious to you that the guy wants to provoke a fight. But you also get the impression that he has many friends in this tavern who are definitely on his side, and they are laughing at you. Though they seem unarmed, that does not mean that they are. This situation could turn bloody if they all ganged up on you."

The player was under no obligation to be provoked into -or back down from this fight. But he chose the honorable route, and decided to simply leave the tavern. His character was above petty insults from some random stranger in a strange town.

But had it come to a fight, that would be a fine choice as well. As a DM I can only set the scene, based on the roll of the npc, and inform the player how he perceives the situation. But how he reacts to it, that choice is all his own.
 
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pming

Legend
Hiya!

Ok then...looks like I and my group are one of the outliers again. :) No worries. I can see others view about player get's to decide, absolutely, I guess how we do it is that the players decide based on their view of what they think their characters....if they "weren't their characters" in a way... would do/behave. We enjoy that sort of game I guess.

Thanks for the chat! :)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 


Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Two, the Player is a self-entitled little whiny brat who doesn't think the rules of the spell/ability/whatever apply to their PC because their PC is super-extra-doubly-special. This player is under the false impression that they get to decide how a GM runs the game if they don't like it.

Hi ya, Paul

Could you think of another reason why a person might not like the thought of being forced to do something against their will other then being a self entitled whiny brat? Or is it just whiny brats all the way down.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
But it's still up to the player to decide how his character responds. There's no wrong way to react here. He can have his character be convinced by the successful Diplomacy roll that the npc made, or he can ignore it. That's up to the player to decide.
I agree with what you say here, but to me this violates the Diplomacy rule in that for me PCs and NPCs are equal...and thus rules must apply to them equally. So, if a PC can choose to ignore an excellent Diplomacy roll then so should an NPC be able to, which quickly leads to asking why not do the sensible thing and just chuck Diplomacy entirely.

I don't think a player is obligated to do this at all. In fact, on many occasions my players have pondered whether they should take a certain spell into the upcoming battle, because their character may not have a reason to think the spell would be necessary. And that is always the moment where I as a DM remind them that it is still a game, and they can make what ever choice (good or bad) as they see fit. They can think as their characters, but they can also think as players. Neither is wrong.
And this is why I've come to loathe pre-memorization of spells...if you get unlucky and pick the wrong one(s) you're screwed for the day.

Lan-"slots and wild-card like 3e sorcerers for the win"-efan
 

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